48. How I Recovered From Teenage Depression
This week I sit down to talk about what helped during my recovery journey. The main tips I outlined were...
Keep your sleep consistent + plentiful
Eat balanced
Practice self-validation of emotions
Be open with a therapist 100%
Actively rewiring your negative thought patterns
Creating relationships that made you feel seen and appreciated
Keeping busy with life!
Mentioned in this week's episode...
About She Persisted (formerly, Nevertheless, She Persisted)
After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.
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Sadie: Welcome to nevertheless she persisted. I'm your host, Sadie. Every Friday, I post interviews about mental health, dialectical behavioral therapy and teenage life. These episodes break down my mental health journey, teach skills to help you cope with life and showcase testimonials from teams, just like you, whether you've struggled yourself or just want to improve your mental fitness. This podcast is your inspiration to live a life you love and keep resisting.
Hello everyone. And welcome back to another episode of she persisted this week, I am bringing you another solo episode and I'm going to be talking about my depression journey and my recovery. And I thought it was really interesting when I was deciding what to upload this week, that I had not talked about my own depression recovery in over a year.
And I don't even know if that episode is still up anymore, but I just have not sat down and done an episode completely dedicated to my own recovery from depression. What was helpful, what I would recommend and those pivotal changes I made in my life to help me reach recovery and maintain that. And so that's what we're doing this week.
First and foremost, I wanted to kind of talk about the approach I'm going to take with this episode. So this is a little bit off topic, but this week I was getting ready for bed and I was watching Euphoria. And she was talking about this really intense depression experience she was going through and the way they depicted the depression that the main character was experiencing was just phenomenally accurate.
So as I was sitting there and watching this episode, I, I had a question and the question, I don't know the answer to feel free to send me a DM, if you have a perspective on this, because I would love to hear it, but I wondered. If as humans as super in permanent beings, do we ever get to a point where we're no longer triggered by things relating to our mental health journeys?
And I'll explain. So I was watching this episode and she's talking about her depression. I have those feelings. that was me, that resonates that that's familiar. I've been there. and yeah, and so that definitely, that had that emotional tug that had that emotional pull, it brought something up. and to this day I'm very intentional with the, the content I consume and how it portrays mental health.
I am very intentional about the relationships that I have in my life and conversations I engage in to not have certain triggers that I know won't help my mental health. I know when I was watching that TV show and they were super accurately depicting that depression. I know that brought up those old feelings because I saw myself in the show. and I know when people bring up certain behaviors that I used to use to cope. I know that still brings something up for me. It has that emotional, that emotional reaction, which totally normal, totally valid, a very human reaction. So I was wondering too, we ever get to a point where we don't get triggered. By things in our mental health journeys, will I ever be able to hear of those behaviors and not feel the emotions? Tied to my own experiences. And I think in that moment, I go back and forth. But in that moment, my kind of inclination was no. And that doesn't mean that we'll become less receptive and won't become less responsive to those triggers.
And I know for me, anxiety is one thing before I used to latch on to when people would be feeling anxiety and I wanted to help and I wanted to support them because I'd been there and I'd been through that. And now I I'm still like, okay, I understand what you're going through. And I have that connection there, but it's not that extreme, overwhelming, emotional response.
And so I think over time, if we are moving our lives to more healthy patterns, more, More moments of happiness and joy and stability and less moments of crisis. We get further from those emotional responses associated with those triggers. But I don't, I don't know if they ever go away. And I, I think that's just something to think about and sorry, I've gone on this whole tangent now, but I, I, I really have been thinking about that question and wondering kind of how that, how that plays out and how that impacts our relationships and the way we look at things.
With that being sad. I bring this up because this podcast has always been a resource for kids, teenagers, adults, anyone struggling with their mental health. I've always talked into the microphone with the intention of saying I've been there. You're not alone and they can get better.
It doesn't have to be this way. You have power and I can, I can help you. I can help tell you what worked for me. And if you, and if you want to, you can make changes in your life and hopefully see improvements. So again, so my, my, my audience that I've spoken to for a very long time is, is people struggling or people who have experience with, with suffering, relating to their mental health.
And I want to kind of zoom in on that word suffering. I think especially recently I've become so aware of things like therapy. We still have that stigma of like, Oh, I used to go to therapy or, I know someone that goes to therapy, but it's not a normal thing to be like, Oh yeah, I'm going to therapy.
Like, this is just something I do. You know what I mean? And for me, I feel like that's kind of crazy because I've been in therapy now since middle school. And I don't see a point where I, where I'm stopped going to. To therapy because it's just such an amazing resource for me. Like, no matter what I'm going through, whether it's a conflict with my parents, trying to figure out like a romantic relationship, needing help improving how I'm participating in school and managing my schedule.
Like it's just that resource for support and bouncing ideas off of and, and feeling like you're not alone and you're not bottling things up. And that was so different from what therapy used to look like for me, I used to therapy was a lifeline for me. If I went a week without a session, I noticed a humongous emotional difference.
And I would come to these sessions and leave sobbing and so much would come up for me. And there would be so much to unpack all the crises from the week before. And that's so different now. Like I didn't think I would ever get to the point where I'd be like, I'm going into therapy. And I'm like, so I'm thinking about my college application.
Like, what do you think about talking about my mental health from this perspective? Like that, that's what my biggest question for the week that, that, that was crazy to me two years ago. So anyways, circling back, my, my audience has always been people familiar with suffering or, or suffering themselves currently.
And that idea of suffering is, is so subjective. And I want to communicate that the. The lack of need for something like a diagnosis or a list of symptoms or a certain level of discomfort that, that makes these solutions and coping mechanisms and life changes applicable to you. it's really interesting to me, how I, I got so far down, such a negative path with my emotions and bottling up and ending relationships.
When I could have made these changes so much sooner before I got severely depressed. And before I got so anxious and that these things that worked for me, people feel like they don't meet the criteria to try these solutions, try these, these small changes in life to help improve your wellbeing, that working towards that happiness.
Isn't as necessary as it is for someone who's been in and out of the hospital. And I think that's, I think there's a lot of, I don't agree with that. And the reasoning is, is that we, you know, the phrase where it's like, it's my world and you're just living in it. I, that was always something people like, that's always been a negative thing where people are like, you're so selfish, you're at the center of your world.
Like that would be a negative thing. If you weren't thinking about others, But when we think about it, I'm never going to be in your shoes and you're never going to be in mine. We can empathize, we can have a really strong connection and a relationship, but at the end of the day, I will always be navigating through this lifetime from my own perspective.
So why would we, why would we decide our level of suffering based on someone else's? Why would we decide our need for improvement or our, our goal of happiness based on someone else's emotional experience. And I think that's just a question to think about and look at your own life. Because at the end of the day, it's your life.
It's just that it's no one else's and yes, we have all these amazing connections and connections are what controls so much of our life in a sense. And we interact with people every single day. And there's other influences on our life that are sometimes more powerful than our own. But you're still, it's coming from your perspective and you're only experiencing your own emotions and your own sensations and your own thoughts.
So why not optimize for the best version of those? So that is kind of where I've gone with this podcast is I focus on what, what worked, what was helpful and, and the, the positive, the recovery side of things. And I just talked about one of those reasons, which is that I'm targeting an audience that is familiar with this idea of suffering in any capacity. And I have this belief that we all have these emotional connections to these negative experiences. And I want to minimize that discomfort when people come for support and resources. So that's one reason I focused on the positives. The second reason is that, especially in my own experience when I was in and out of treatment. and I think this is kind of unique as an adolescent. If you're in the hospital, if you're in an outpatient group, if you do like group therapy lessons, if you're in a residential or a program away from home, you're oftentimes in a cohort or group of other kids going through similar things.
And yes, there's that sense of validation that someone else has been there and they get it. And we feel so isolated with our own experiences, because again, we're the only ones that experienced our own emotion. So when they're so dark and painful and there's all that suffering, it feels like you're the only one in the world that's ever been through that.
And no one else could possibly imagine and understand how hard it is to get through the day. And that's just so isolating and so alienating and an miserable experience to be quite honest. So in my own experience, interacting with other peers, having gone to the same mental health challenges or similar mental health challenges, there's this sense of competition, which I kind of mentioned with people feeling like they don't deserve therapy or need therapy, or it hasn't gotten bad enough.
And I hate that idea because like I go back to, we're only looking at the world from our own. Emotional sensations and thoughts and experiences. So why not? Why not? Like, why is it a, I don't know how to explain this. I'm doing a terrible job, but yeah, there's a lot of that negative competition of, Oh, I was worse or this was more painful or, like it's.
I remember this feeling of, I have nothing going for me in my life. I have none of these great relationships and friendships that I used to have. I feel miserable and isolated at home. I hate every single part of myself. But that's what I'm good at is being the worst at all those things. And that's so terrible and horrible and such a depressing thought, but that was really what I felt I had going for me.
And so I want to veer away from that, that negative connection over that suffering. And instead focus on the positive connection over growth because we attract people based on what we're putting out into the universe. When you're putting out feelings of depression and anxiety and sadness, your relationships around that.
And that's how you connect. So if we're making connections over, over growth and for hope in life and for positivity, that things will change and that life is impermanent, and that will be on your side. That's how you will connect with people. And. The people that surround us impact who we are. So I want to be that step zero of creating that, putting out that energy of positivity and growth and improvement.
if that makes sense. So with that being said, Telling this story. I am focusing on what worked for me and I'm focusing less on these super negative crises behaviors, things that came up for me when I was suffering, because that's what people can't relate to. Sure. Maybe they had a conflict with their parents, or they had those really low moments, but those details, those discrepancies are what isolate us.
Because none of us are living the same life. We don't wake up in the same bad every morning. We don't go to the same school and sit in the same classes and have the same thoughts. So why would we like separate ourselves based on those differences and instead focus on the emotional experience of sadness or hope or joy, or shame.
And say I've been there. I felt that experience. I felt that emotion, and this is what worked for me to help fuel more of that joy and to make those positive changes. So really focusing on, on those emotions, because that's what connects us as people that is, that's how we thrive and function. And yeah. So I wrote down a little list of the things that really made pivotal changes in my depression journey.
And I've mentioned that I've struggled with anxiety. I think I read a mentioned in an episode or two that I struggled with, OCD, and there was all these other little things that came up along the way, but the forefront of my suffering was always the depression. It was that, that darkness that low, like that was really, really what was, present for me.
So I wrote down the things that helped with that specifically. So the first thing, and I'll link this up to, in the description where I got into way more detail, but sleep. You've heard me say it 70,000 times before, and I'm going to say it again. I was in my psych class today when we were talking about what happens when you go to sleep and yes, as like psychologists and doctors and the scientific field doesn't know exactly why we need sleep, why we go to sleep, what the function is.
But part of it is that our experiences get tagged with different emotions. Right? We, we figure out what is relevant, what is important for us to remember a store in our memories and the rest gets wiped clean. So just from like a very, very basic zoomed out standpoint, if you're never getting that, that time for your body to reset your mind and reset your memory, like you're feeling a month immense stress from having to hold all of that, all of those experiences, all those thoughts, all those emotions and reactions.
At one time that's exhausting. It's fatiguing you don't, you don't get that reset in the morning, which can be so powerful. another huge thing is emotional vulnerability and emotional vulnerability is a concept in DBT where it's, it kind of is a way to remember. How you could be more predisposed to feel your emotions more strongly.
And that includes things like, have you slept the night before? Have you eaten today? People get hangry. It's a thing. If you drink coffee every morning, have you not had your coffee yet? Another other factions of emotional vulnerability are like, did you have a really tough day today? Did you have a conflict with your boss?
Are things tough at home? are you already feeling anxiety about something else? So what else is going on in our lives that can contribute to a certain situation, instance, interaction and make us more susceptible to feeling things like sadness and shame and anger and so sleep again, huge factor to that.
And so depression the way I think about it and the way that I've explained it to people that haven't experienced depression before. Like when I talked to my dad about what that was like for me is I think about it as a spectrum of emotions.
We have the average person. That's never felt depression who feels sadness from time to time. And then we have the clinically diagnosed major depressive disorder, patient who every single day struggles to move their body and get out of bed. And those levels of suffering arguably would be different. And.
When we think of our emotions, we feeling them in the present. We're feeling that the emotional sensations out, we go through them. And so that moment for average, Joe, that was just really sad and really low. We can say to him, Hey, imagine if that was what your life felt like all the time. And he can start to empathize and realize what that feels like for our major depressive disorder patient, and his is not the same.
And it's not there so many more factors, but like from an average standpoint, like those emotions, that spectrum of our emotions is what feeds so much into mental, mental health issues and instability. So. Where I was going with that is decreasing your emotional vulnerability. If depression is an emotional vulnerability for you, you're more susceptible to shame.
Maybe it's guilt. sometimes where people, anxiety comes up with depression, your ability, so anger, sadness, et cetera. We want to decrease susceptive the susceptibility to those emotions because you know, you're already going to be on high alert because of that depression. And that's not the best way to explain it, but I think, I think you get the jest so decreasing that emotional vulnerability.
So you experience those negative emotions associated with depression as little as possible. We're optimizing for, for putting yourself in the best scenario, assumes that your mental health can have the best shot possible. The second thing is also related to emotional vulnerability and that's eating balanced.
I talked about people being hangry, but I think when we get into the Headspace of mental health and people struggling in depression, struggling with self-esteem and self hatred, and invalidation of yourself and all of that whole, that whole shame spiral, sometimes things with eating can be involved.
And so, yes, it's a whole nother thing to work through with a therapist and, and get to the root of, and make intentional changes. And when we're not eating balanced, we know that makes us more susceptible to things like depression and anxiety and just more hangry and irritable in general. So I noticed huge shifts when I literally would like, literally, I think it was three days after I started sleeping through the night and using my sleep protocol.
I woke up for the first time in six months, not feeling extremely depressed. That's crazy, crazy, crazy. And this was when I was 14 and I was still at McLean hospital, but that that's the switch. Of sleep just to had monumental impacts for how I was able to cope with the things thrown at me during the day.
I wasn't waking up already exhausted dealing with things from the day before I was having this fresh start to cope with what was thrown at me. And then the second thing that I just mentioned, which is eating balanced, similar, which is that decreasing these other, these other cues, your body is trying to send you if you're constantly fixated on the fact that you're hungry and you haven't eaten, like your body, can't focus on coping with the other things being thrown at you and your emotional response will be stronger.
And so we're, we're trying to decrease that unnecessary, emotional arousal that can make things like depression, worse. So the third thing that I wrote down was self validation of emotions. And I've talked about this before, but I am a bottle or I'm someone that bottles up. I suppress emotions. I'm a very, very, very sensitive person.
And so for me, so for so long, it was easier just to be like, Nope, I'm not experienced like instant thing because, and I would, this is like getting. It's a catch 22 because I would suppress the emotion. So the next time they would come up, they would be stronger. And then I would try to push them down more and it would just get worse and worse and worse and worse.
And I dug myself into this hole, of these really strong emotional moments. But when I, when I told myself and I started. Having this inner dialogue of it's okay. To feel sad. And it's okay to feel lonely after having a conflict with my family. And it's okay to feel really ashamed, that this is something I'm going through and it doesn't mean it's logically make sense.
It doesn't mean that it's a justified emotion, but it means that it's valid and okay. And, and you're allowed to feel that emotion. And that's perfectly reasonable and it's, and we work through it and it's not bad. And so. And so that was huge for me because I went from, from having so much shame about the fact that I was even experiencing depression at all to being like, okay, yes, this is not something I would have chosen to do.
And maybe from a societal perspective, this isn't a good thing that I've been dealt this deck of cards and it's okay. And it's not bad. And I wasn't just experiencing these negative emotions and beating myself up for the fact that I was having the negative emotions. I was just experiencing negative emotions.
Accepting them sitting with that discomfort so I could work through it and I stopped bottling up and creating a snowball of negative emotions, which made things so much worse for myself. And I think, that goes hand in hand with moments of joy, what, who that is something like listening to music that you like, but other people maybe don't like, or watching a funny movie, like having that moment of.
It is totally valid and okay. That I am experiencing this small moment of joy. Even one thing is in the world are crazy right now, even when I still need to repair this relationship with my parents or that friend, or I'm a little bit behind on this schoolwork assignment, I am S it's still valid and okay.
And, and, and perfect in a sense to have that joy in that moment. So that was really another huge pivotal thing. For me that helped my depression recovery, because I was stopped creating bigger battles for myself and I stopped being my own enemy in my recovery. The fourth thing that I wrote down when I was thinking about what was pivotal, my depression recovery was being open with a therapist 100%.
And I honestly couldn't tell you if this is an experience everyone has,
or if it's just me, but I know when I go into a therapy session, especially if something negative has happened or if there's been a conflict or having society about something, or engage in a behavior, that's shameful for me. Like that's in the back of my head. It's there. I know it's there. And. It doesn't matter what else we're talking about.
Like, I it's just sitting there is creating that discomfort and it's like nagging at me. And I don't know if that's something that other people experience, but I noticed when I went into sessions and. And just talked about that upfront because I had the trust and the logical understanding that therapy is a place for you to lay it all on the table and not be challenged.
Therapy is a place where, what you're feeling is okay, and you can work through it and you get support and it doesn't matter. Like you just get support and love and, and care for what you're going through. And so I noticed I continue, like this was another thing where I being my own enemy in my recovery, where, when I came into therapy and said, okay, I had this really big conflict with my parents and I had this really awful shame spiral.
And that was the first thing we kind of addressed. My full attention could be on the other things we worked for in the session. And I didn't feel more shame for hiding and not talking about something. And I, I felt that sense of peace and resolution that comes with like stock keeping secrets, you know what I mean?
so that was the fourth thing that was really, really pivotal in my recovery is that. I, I completely opened myself up to that support and that, that care and, and stopped kind of having that monologue that I, I think even that would, wasn't the place where I could bring all these messy parts of me. So the fifth one, I've talked about this a little bit, but I.
Worked intensely to rewire my own inner monologue and my core beliefs and my core beliefs, going into high school when I was at the very, very low parts of my depression was that I didn't deserve love from anyone in life at all. Like I just, that was not something I didn't deserve it. I believe that I would never be good enough for my parents and I.
Believe the treatment would not work for me. I lived my life through those three lenses and it wasn't like sometimes you look at a situation new you're a little bit judgmental. Now this was just how my brain worked. I saw everything from the lens of, I don't deserve love. I'll never be good enough for my parents.
And true moon will work for me. My life will be like this forever. And. That was impacted my life in a very powerful way. Quite obviously, if you're looking through life with a perspective that you don't deserve, love, you find that circumstantial evidence that supports the fact that you don't deserve love and care and support, and that that can be really toxic.
And so I w again, I think it's mental health and kids is such an interesting thing because. Depression itself. You kind of get into this head space for you. You're like, I don't even remember when things were different and you kind of talk yourself into everything has always been bad, but I feel like that's on another level with kids because.
Especially when you started experiencing depression at a young age, you already, like, we don't remember when we're born, when we're toddlers, like already, we don't remember that. So it's more and more of your life where you have those experiences of negativity and depression and suffering, and suddenly it becomes your everything.
And so. For me. I didn't remember a moment when I thought I deserved love and I didn't remember a moment. Oh, when I thought I was good enough for my parents or when I thought life could be different for me. And so instead of working in my recovery to get back to that place of happiness, I was getting there for the first time, or that was what it felt like, like for me.
And that was what I genuinely believed in that moment was that it. It wasn't like I needed to get back to where I had been in my life. I was getting there for the first time. I hadn't even gotten to the top of the mountain yet. And the way that I did that was really simple, but it was terribly difficult.
What I would do. And this took months and months and months of intentionally doing this every single day. Whenever I noticed another thing also, I need to add this, but at McClain, one of the things I realized was how fast my mind would run in circles. I would have. I noticed one body language difference from someone across the room.
And I would get into this whole shame, thoughts, spiral about negative things about my own life, and that would happen within seconds. And that we kind of came again, one of my own worst enemies in recovery, because I, I just was creating all this, all this suffering for myself in these really inconsequential moments. So the way that I rewired my thought patterns is I would like flag whenever I noticed a moment of like, I would be walking on the street and it would be like, Hey, to someone I knew. And if they didn't wave back initially, it'd be like, Oh, they don't want to see me. They hate me instead.
I would notice that thought like, okay, it's okay that I'm having that thought that's valid. That's normal. That's okay. And. They, they probably just didn't see and them, even if they didn't want to say hi, that doesn't dictate my worthiness or my ability to be loved. We love myself and I deserve healthy relationships and the life that I love.
And so Every single time I was able to intentionally notice those moments. I would reword that thought process and use those kinds of positive affirmations. Would be a way to describe them to switch those thought processes. And that was everything from looking in the mirror and having a negative thought and then reframing that to having a huge conflict with my parents and then having that monologue afterwards, like it was a huge shift throughout every aspect of my life.
so the sixth thing that I wrote down was creating relationships that made me feel seen and appreciated. So I've talked about how I felt so isolated and lonely at home. And I think a lot of that was because again, I was bottling up all my suffering. I wasn't telling anyone what was going on for me, which of course made no one knew.
or if they did that, they didn't really understand what was going on. which made it really difficult to have connections and authentic relationships where I felt seen and appreciated because I was already hiding parts of myself. So during my time, I'm at boarding school, I was able to make some really authentic, amazing connections where people saw 100% of me.
They saw the good moments. They saw the joyful moments and they saw the messiness of my life. And that was okay. That was normal and that was human and, and it was just, it was okay. I could, they could still love me and care about me even when they saw those messy parts. And so having those relationships where I felt seen for.
I, as I was not how I wished I was and this certain things I would put on display, but I was appreciated and, and loved in moments of sadness and in moments of anger and in moments of joy. And I wasn't, I wasn't hiding things in those relationships. So the final thing I wrote down was keeping busy and I definitely take issue with keeping yourself so busy that you never have a moment to sit with what you're going through and have those moments of peace and calmness, and like kind of recovering from all the moments of busy-ness. If that makes sense.
But going to things like school every day, getting up and having a purpose of where you need to be having engagements in your relationships where you w you have to go and see people and interact. I think that's really important for your mental health, especially if you're prone to having urges, to not want to do those things.
And so I wasn't, I wasn't in the head space where I was like, Oh yeah, I would love to get up at 8:00 AM in the morning and go and sit in the class all day. Like that was just not something that, from a depression, Headspace I wanted to do, but there's a DBT scale called opposite action. And the first step of opposite action is being aware of the emotion you're experiencing.
And for the purpose of this, let's say it's sadness. And so we think about sadness and we think about what are the urges associated to withdraw, to isolate? Maybe it's negative, self-talk crying. Pouting, maybe it's throwing yourself a pity party complaining. I can be a big complainer at times, but that is the urges that are associated when we feel that emotional, that emotional cue from sadness.
So what would the opposite actions of that sadness be? It would be to get up and interact, make connections instead of isolating, instead of pouting. Being neutral or happy or being willing to experience that happiness instead of complaining, looking for little moments of positivity throughout your day.
Instead of avoiding responsibilities because they seem overwhelming going and doing them anyways. And it's not easy. I'm not saying this is like, Oh, you let me just switch that mindset. We're good to go. It's an incredibly different, difficult DBT scale. And, and it's really a mind over matter kind of moment.
And I have had many of those days where it's, you just can't muster the courage to become, to go and work out because I know it's good for my mental health. Sometimes you just watch another episode of that TV show and that's human and that's okay. And you can still be worthy of love and care and connection and support and have those moments.
So that opposite action scale is what I had to use a lot in the beginning. It wasn't natural for me to get up and go do things. I had to really fight against the urge to stay in bed and isolate and not connect with people. But it is so powerful, especially when trying to stay busy and with anxiety as well.
which I'm going to do whole nother episode on at some point. But, when you're feeling those urges of fear to run away and hide, if it's valid, like if you're, there's a threat to your life, of course run, hide, et cetera. But if your, your fear is that you'll get judgment during the class presentation and your urges to run, you do the opposite of that and you go and give the presentation and that emotion starts to decrease.
And so. That is one of my all time favorite DBT skills and I'll link blazes episode in this podcast, in the show notes, because he talked about ops action as well. and it's an extremely powerful tool, especially for depression. So keeping busy because it, it forces you to check those boxes and making connections and doing the opposite of what depression tells you to do and less rumination, of the negative sensations.
So with that being said, those are all the things that really, really helped and were very pivotal in my depression recovery. And if you've made it this long, thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in this week. Let me know what you thought and if you've tried any of these, or if you have any other things that helped with your own recovery or just with, in life with when you're having a bad day, what do you do to turn it around?
So, yeah. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please, please, please leave a review on Apple podcasts. It helps so much, for me as a podcaster and yeah, I will see you next week.
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