141. Losing a Loved One to Suicide: What Alexandra Wyman Wants You to Know

Mar 29

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Today's guest is Alexandra Wyman— an author, podcaster, speaker and grief navigator. After losing her husband to suicide, Alexandra wrote The Suicide Club: What to Do When Someone You Love Chooses Death to offer a road back to peace and joy for anyone who has lost someone close to them to suicide. In this episode, we discuss Alexandra's journey to becoming an advocate for people whose loved ones died by suicide, what the initial days of grieving a suicide can be like and ways others can best offer support during these times, boundaries she wished she had set while grieving and reminders she wishes she had heard, maintaining your personal identity while grieving, tools and resources that are helpful throughout the grieving process, and thoughts on how people react to suicides in the news and popular misconceptions about suicide.

Alexandra's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/forwardtojoy

Mentioned In The Episode…

+ Alexandra's Website

+ The Suicide Club: What to Do When Someone You Love Chooses Death

+ Alexandra's Email

+ To Be Magnetic

SHOP GUEST RECOMMENDATIONS: https://amzn.to/3A69GOC

Episode Sponsors

🛋This week's episode is sponsored by Teen Counseling. Teen Counseling is an online therapy program with over 14,000 licensed therapists in their network offering support with depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, and more via text, talk, and video counseling. Head to teencounseling.com/shepersisted to find a therapist today!

About She Persisted (formerly Nevertheless, She Persisted)

After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.

a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

Alexandra: [00:00:00] we don't need to be fixed. We're not broken. And our lives don't have to be dictated. We are definitely impacted by this. But we don't have to be dictated. And I'll say what I find when people come at you from potentially that empathetic, I think they're trying to be empathetic, but often it ends up being more pity.

And I think people do that to create space between themselves and suicide. as though they can create some sort of algorithm or reason that it won't impact them or it'll never happen to them.

Sadie: Hello. Hello and welcome to Sheep Persisted.

If you're new here, I'm Sadie. I'm a sophomore at the University of Pennsylvania. I just turned 20, so like should we rebrand to a mental health podcast instead of a teen mental health podcast? , but I started, she resisted after a year and a half of intensive treatment during my sophomore year of high school.

And I've really worked to create the resource that I wish I had when I was struggling. So everything and anything teens struggle with, and today we're talking about something very important, which is grief and navigating a loved one or community member [00:01:00] dying by suicide, which is a topic you don't hear about on a lot of podcasts.

And so that's why I'm so excited to have Alexandra Wyman on. Today she lost her husband to suicide in 2020, and she wrote a book about everything she wished she knew everything that would've helped her navigate the tragedy and also work through those challenging emotions. So, we get all of her insight on what that is like to navigate. And so if you are supporting someone who's gone through that, she gives you all the insight on what they might be feeling, thinking, what is helpful, what's not helpful, and then also what was helpful in her own journey with coping with those big emotions, asking for help, setting boundaries, all of the things she's so vulner.

So raw in this episode. I learned a lot. I was so in awe of her. . And so I'm just really hoping that this conversation helps someone that is navigating this because it is so challenging and really heartbreaking.

So, That is what to expect in today's episode. Trigger warning, of course, for suicide. We stay away from graphics. We talk a lot about the grief [00:02:00] experience and what that's like and the aftermath and what that's like to process, but there was nothing extremely triggering from my perspective, but it does touch on that topic. So just giving that disclaimer, if you wanna stop listening, I understand. Do what's best for you, your mental health comes first, always.

And if you're gonna keep listening, let's dive in.

Thank you so much for joining me today on She Persisted for anyone listening. We're having all the tech issues, but we're, we're moving forward.

We're going ahead. And I'm so excited to have you here today, Alexandra.

Alexandra: Oh, well, thank you so much for having me. I'm just, I'm very honored to be here and to have this opportunity. .

Sadie: So I would love to start with your background and your story. What brought you to becoming an advocate for individuals whose family, friends, loved ones, have died by suicide and the family members have survived them and, and that experience and how you started speaking out and sharing your experience.

Alexandra: Yeah, thank you. So I am technically a pediatric occupational therapist by trade. But I've always enjoyed writing. It's been very cathartic for me, [00:03:00] and I did not study writing at all. In college or anything like that. But after I finally settled down, after traveling and, and moving around quite a bit I ended up meeting my husband in 2017.

We had this whirlwind romance and so we got married pretty quickly. Had our son, we had that picture, US life. We both had great jobs, our house. And then four days before second wedding anniversary, my husband died by suicide, which. blew up our life. . So in an instant, being a widowed single mom, navigating all.

And in addition to that, the night that he died started additional trauma and drama from friends and family. And I had no playbook for that. I had no idea what was happening. I couldn't understand why people were saying what they were doing. The blame, the judgment, the anger, all sorts of things were coming out.

And I was gifted some really beautiful like widows journals and prayer books, but nothing really. gave me a [00:04:00] peace of mind over, you can get through this. And also some crazy stuff can happen when people are grieving. Yeah. And I hadn't experienced that before, so I started jotting down ideas. I've always been someone who said, if I've gone through something that's hard, what can I do to help other people get through similar experiences in order to feel that comfort?

And so that's how I started really writing and saying, I wanna write the. that I wish existed for me to help me through this process, and it just kind of took off from there.

Sadie: So walk me through those initial moments, that initial night, that initial day when you're finding out what emotions were coming up for you, what thoughts were coming up.

I'm sure it was very, very overwhelming in the moment. You probably weren't able to like label those things, but for anyone that's currently experiencing this or if they're listening to this episode and at some point God forbid something happens what kind. Came up and arose and, and what was that experience like?

What was helpful? What wasn't. It can be so [00:05:00] much more overwhelming when you don't even know what you're experiencing. So if you could shed any light on what that was like, and then also for anyone listening that then is trying to support someone to have that insight and be like, okay, maybe this is what's going through their head.

Or maybe it's the emotions that they're struggling.

Alexandra: Absolutely. And in those first days, even that first night, you're just in shock. Your body just starts to protect you, so you're just managing survival at that point in time. So in, in that case a , lot of the emotions are, are kind of like a, what just happened?

And there was fear for me. I was like, I just lost my husband. Am I gonna lose my son? Where are we gonna live? Mm-hmm. , you know, you're flooded with all of these what ifs, where are we gonna live? How are we gonna survive? In addition to that though, when people say, don't make any decisions. For the first year, I was like, and I, people were telling me that and I'm going, I have to make decisions immediately.

Yeah. And within three days I had someone saying, we're hiring a lawyer and we're coming after you, [00:06:00] essentially. And I was going, oh my gosh. Like I just lost my husband. I'm trying to navigate this and now you're coming at me with this legal action. So it is extremely overwhelming. And so initially what I just needed and people were very, I also had people who were very generous and who were there, who were helping with care for my son who were helping me make appointments.

Cuz you can't function. The cognitive overload Yeah. Is, can be very overwhelming. So I had to learn and people just jumped in. So when people ask, what can I do for you? I usually say, when you're in that state, you don't. because what you need is your person back. I needed my husband back and you can't get that.

Yeah. So it's like, I don't know what I need right now. So I had people who were bringing food. I had people who were just checking in and saying, we're sending love, and that was very helpful. They were taking care of, they were kind of taking off my plate. Some of those management things we do daily. Yeah.

So that I could just function and that was helpful. What wasn't so helpful is, like I said, asking like, [00:07:00] what do you need? People were kind of projecting their ideas of grief. So I, I discovered pretty quickly that I'm, I'm more of a private griever. I didn't want hugs from people Al, although I did, but I literally would just wait till my son went to bed and would just sob in the shower.

Like that was how I was grieving. But that people were projecting their ideas of grief or what they would want to feel, comfort and how. , they wanted me to express that for them. So it's almost like you're going through your worst nightmare, and people want you to make them feel comfortable or help make them feel like something like this will never happen to them.

Sadie: Were there any boundaries that you wish you would've set? Like, please don't ask about this, or, this is not helpful, or, This time of day is when I could use the most help. For listeners that either are trying to support someone or for their selves, they're like, this is very overwhelming, but I don't know what I should be doing instead.

Is there anything that comes to [00:08:00] mind with that?

Alexandra: Yeah. One of the boundaries I wish that I had been more confident to set was actually more energetic and emotional. People were projecting a lot, again, blame. , anger, judgment. I must have known something. It was like a kind of a caveat, like you must have known something, why didn't you save him?

And then also, you know, but you caused it, right? So I wish I had been more resolute in saying, that's your stuff. Like, yeah, I know what our marriage was, I know what was going on, and I am not to blame. So that's one of those things is being able to be really, really, Confident in saying, Nope, I'm not gonna be influenced by you projecting your own anger onto me.

So that, was definitely a big one. Yeah.

Sadie: So you've written this book about everything that you wish you would've heard and known about at this, at this time in your life. Are there certain reminders or or thoughts or just things that you can say to people that are currently experiencing this that you [00:09:00] wish you would've heard when you were going through.

Alexandra: Yeah. When I'll say you can get through. It feels unbearable. It feels like you can't, but you can. And another thing I like to, to encourage people is find something or someone that is going to be your motivator. The one little thing that you can hold onto. So individuals who are closely impacted by suicide have a higher risk of dying by suicide.

I will say in my experience, I totally underst. Having my son was kind of the preventative piece for me cuz I was like, he's already lost one parent. It's not gonna be fair for him to lose another one. But there are gonna be days that like I had. Lots of days where I did not want to get out of bed.

I couldn't set an alarm. Mornings were very hard, but you had to have one little thing to say, okay, I can get up and go to the bathroom. I can get up and get in the shower. I can eat half of this muffin to know that when the next day [00:10:00] comes, you can do a little bit more. Yeah. yeah, that's a big piece of it.

And the other thing is too, I'm a big believer and through this process, Discovered this, that our purpose, in my opinion, is just to be who we are. And it gets muddled by all these projections and messages we get from our parents, our coaches, our teachers, society, social media. But when you can weed through that and quiet the noise and get to your purpose, putting one foot in front of the other becomes a little more bearable.

Was

Sadie: it challenging? I can imagine that there was somewhat of like an external identity shift almost after you experienced this, that people were no longer seeing you as you and more associating you with this traumatic experience. , what was that like? Was that something that you had to grapple with, set boundaries around internally, like reevaluate, you're like, no, I remember who I am and yes is something I'm [00:11:00] experiencing.

But I'd say that's probably one of the, the biggest things that I've seen as an outsider. When someone does have a loved one die by suicide, you then almost label like, oh, they, they survived that, or they've gone through that and. I think partially empathetic, where you're like, okay, this is such a big overwhelming challenge that they must be experiencing.

You want that to be at the forefront of mine. So you can be compassionate and considerate and know what they're going through. But I can imagine from an identity perspective, it must be really difficult then to be like, no, but I, I more than this, there's so much more that I, I have ahead of me. Especially as you get further away from that time in your life, is that something that resonates or completely off the, off

Alexandra: the.

Oh no, a hundred percent. I mean, it's been interesting and I wanna be another tool for people, another resource. So I, I have a very large, I call it my toolbox. It's not actually a physical toolbox, but, and with one of my therapists that is exactly what I've been working through, is that for my son and me, one, we don't need to be fixed.

Yeah, we're not broken. And our lives don't [00:12:00] have to be dictated. We are definitely impacted by this. But we don't have to be dictated. And I'll say what I find when people do that, when they come at you from potentially that empathetic, I think they're trying to be empathetic, but often it ends up being more pity.

And I think people do that to create space between themselves and suicide. as though they can create some sort of algorithm or reason that it won't impact them or it'll never happen to them. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And so some people have definitely treated me with pity. Yeah. That somehow my life is less than, or now I'm broken.

But I've also had people who knew me before and knew me now, and sometimes it's hard for them because there are certain things that have changed about me. My sense of humor took a huge dive. I used, I feel like I used to be very witty and funny, and now some of the things that used to make me laugh just don't.

Yeah. And it makes people very uncomfortable. So sometimes I enjoy meeting people who didn't know me before because they don't know the difference. Yeah. And they're not [00:13:00] searching for that person who used to exist. And so it is, it can be very complicated and overwhelming and, and people will say some of the most inappropriate I can, can imagine.

Yeah. But it's finding a way to just handle that with grace and kindness and know that people are just awkward. I'm still awkward now, now when I hear of other people losing loved ones. uh, Can I just give you a hug because that sucks. Yeah. , right? Exactly. Like that is a huge bummer. Mm-hmm. . But yeah, it's very hard to, and, and as a person, even though other people are trying to navigate the shifts, I'm also navigating those shifts.

Yeah. Of realizing and also mourning the person that I was before. Because when you're going through a grief process, it's not just the grief of losing your loved one. I've lost, you know, we were planning on extending our family. We were planning trips just a day before he died. We were talking.

Upgrades to our house. And so you have this morning over what your life was, what it is now. Milestones for my son, milestones [00:14:00] for me. So it's not. losing him. It's the impact of, of what it does to your life and then having to, to rebuild. Yeah.

Sadie: I love that you mentioned your toolbox. That's something I say all the time. Tools can be really, really effective.

So I'd love to, to start with what tools have been useful? I mean, for me, I'm always like, keep it simple. If there was like one or two things, because I find that I know so many skills, but in the moment, the ones that I implement, I probably pull from like two or three because you just get overwhelmed when you're in that crisis mode.

So, so tools that you have found helpful maybe in the early days. And then as time has gone on, if there are other skills you pull from. And then my next question is gonna be resources, but tools that were, that were helpful for you for listeners that they can take note of or even share with other people that are going through the grieving process that that might be

Alexandra: helpful.

Absolutely. And I'll say the tools change every day. Yeah. So if one works one time, it may not work the next time. And so that's why I say have a collection. Mm-hmm. so that if you're [00:15:00] feeling like one thing's not working, try another. Well I've talked a little bit about the writing. Yeah. Cuz that's a big one in journaling.

And there's so many things when someone dies, there's so many things you can't say anymore to that person. There's so many things you can't hear from that person. . And then also, like I said, when other people are grieving and you can't just go off on everybody, even though I really wanted to. Yeah. So writing was a really cathartic way for me to get out some of that, cuz I do believe that when we hold those things inside and our feelings and we don't work through them, it can wreak havoc on our bodies physically, and it's just not great.

The other tool is really. I don't know if you'd call this necessarily a tool, but I like to encourage people to really sink into all the emotions you feel, including the really crummy ones. Yeah. Because to get to the other side, to get to a place of joy, to get to a place of actually being able to see that you could still have a life and that you can still dream about things and what you wanna accomplish, you have to get through those.

You can't bypass them. They're gonna hang out until you deal with them anyway. So [00:16:00] that's something I do encourage. I do think exercise now, exercise, I'll say for me was a very up and down. Yeah. So some days I was like, oh, awesome, I just ran three miles and other days I couldn't move. Yeah. But I do think that movement is another tool in whatever way, if it's a dance.

We used to do dance parties initially. My son and I love doing dance parties, but we would do dance parties or walk on the treadmill or go for walks in our. because I think that also moves the energy and can really help. You're getting fresh air. Mm-hmm. and overall, it's kind of a passive way to get assistance without really having to sit down and work through everything.

Yeah. So those are kind of like the initial things I would say.

Sadie: today's episode is brought to you by Teen Counseling. Teen Counseling is better. Helps online therapy programs specifically for teens save over 14,000 licensed therapists within their network, and offers support on things like depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, grief.

and so much more. So a lot of the things that we talk about in this episode are really heavy [00:17:00] and overwhelming and difficult to navigate. So if you are experiencing loss or you feel like you need professional support, teen counseling can be a great place to start because you don't have to deal with the long waiting list of local providers. You're able to get matched with someone super quickly. And it's also flexible based on what level of support you're looking for. So you can meet with a counselor via talk text or video counseling, and it's all from your home, which is so convenient and efficient. So if you wanna check out teen counseling and start or continue your therapy journey, you can go to teen counseling.com/she persisted.

Again, that is teen counseling.com/she persisted to find a therapist that fits your needs. The link is in the show notes as.

Alexandra: Were there any

Sadie: podcasts or books or support groups or in even Instagram accounts that you followed that were really helpful

Alexandra: absolutely. I, I started, I'll say this, I, even though I had kind of a basic idea spiritually, that was an area [00:18:00] that has shifted and changed, but also grown.

So I started, I mean, I was reading books about mediums. I was watching TV shows about life after death. I was like, what is happening? I was looking for movies that were like, anything that I could. Just kind of maybe bring me a sense of peace. Mm-hmm. in a way. I read a lot of books.

Yeah. And I also was working through personal growth books that would help me just kind of again, get some more. Tools and a little bit more comfort of like, you have a purpose here. You're meant to be here. You didn't cause this. I also have, since seven weeks after my husband died, I've participated in a suicide support group and I've been very involved in that.

And just being able to hear other people tell their stories and just to know you're not alone was very comforting and very big. Yeah. . And the the third thing I'll say too is I follow the two B magnetic group. The two B magnetic group I [00:19:00] really like too, because that was instrumental. They really help promote working through a lot of those core beliefs, and that's where I started. really looking at what beliefs did I carry from my childhood that were impacting my grieving process, which I know kind of sounds weird, but actually what we're taught as kids really influences our coping skills and how we handle things.

And once I was able to really see like my people pleaser was coming out, I was like, oh, I'm kind of an outcome controller. I wanna control how situations are gonna work. And once I was able to start working through that and tap into other tools that was also really helpful in, in working through that grief and setting boundaries.

Yeah.

Sadie: So for listeners listening to this, the week that we're recording this, this is a very timely topic in the news because there's just been a celebrity suicide, if you will. and everyone is kind of giving their their 2 cents and their thoughts on Twitch and his wife and the kids and Ellen and all of the [00:20:00] things that are kind of swirling around all of these narratives.

What are your thoughts there? Like obviously you've been through this and so you're like there's probably a lot of things where you're like, this is not helpful, this is so off pace. And then hopefully some things Yeah. Where you're like, okay, I'm glad this message is being shared. But, but what are your thoughts on how people, everyone is weighing in on

Alexandra: this.

They are. And so I will say that is a boundary I've had to set for myself because initially when I started hearing people talk about it, I mean, I started getting triggered myself and going, whew, this is not good for me. Yeah. So here's, here's how I look at it. I think Twitch was someone who impacted so many people positively and he lit up a room and he was so great to watch, so great to, to really see his life unfold.

Mm-hmm. and it unfolded so publicly. And so I think when people start reacting. With that blame and judgment. I mean, I've heard it. Did he and his wife have a fight? What did she do? What? [00:21:00] What was go, you know, and that's the exact same thing that happened in my situation. And it's because he was so loved and I'm really working, so bear with me with this one.

Cuz sometimes when I say this, people are like, what? Suicide to me is no different than any other type of, . It just, it's unexpected, so it's that, that unexpected piece of it and the pain that someone is in just isn't necessarily tangible or outward or obvious But I'll tell you, I don't know when that I've met, who's lost a loved one to suicide.

Has said that that's an easy decision. Yeah. You don't just wake up and go, ah, I'm over it. You know, , it's a big deal and to get to a point that you see that the only choice you have left mm-hmm. is to take your life is a pretty big decision. And so I would encourage people. You know, to maybe turn inward and say, what is it about this?

Like what fear do I have that's causing me to react? That someone is to blame and someone needs to be held [00:22:00] responsible. Yeah, Twitch had pain, we just didn't see it. And he can still be loved. There's no, he's still. He's still an amazing person and impacted this world in a really beautiful way. Yeah. I love

Sadie: what you said about what it takes to get to that point, and I think one of the most concerning narratives that I was reading was the check on your friends, and it was like, Okay, we gotta take a second here, because I remember when I was in that similar head space and those were the thoughts going through my mind, it was months, years leading up to those, those thoughts becoming overwhelming.

And obviously because Twitch was a public figure. We're not getting firsthand insight into what those thoughts were, how behaviors were shifting, or relationships or support he was seeking. And so obviously it comes as a shock, but I, of course, it is so important to check on your friends and, and be supportive to one another, but I think.

that narrative and that sentiment suggests that it was like an overnight shift. And I think, like you [00:23:00] emphasized, this doesn't happen overnight. It, it slowly builds over a long time and there's a lot of things that lead to people coming to that conclusion or making that decision that there's no other option.

This is the best path forward. And so while it is very important to support others, and it can sometimes be surprising. You don't realize that they've gotten to that point with their, their mental health struggles. I wouldn't say that it's typically that overnight shift

Alexandra: that you see. Not at all. And in the, the tens of people that I've known through my support group, other people I've met who've been touched by suicide, It's not, it's a culmination of factors over a long period of time.

Yeah, and I appreciate that you talk about that cuz I, this is something I do want to say in my particular case, there were no signs. Yeah, I know. We like to create some rhetoric around signs so that we can predict who's going to die by suicide or what they're going to do. And you can't, and I know that that's scary and I know that that's frustrating and unnerving.

In my case, there were no [00:24:00] signs that, you know, did I know my husband struggled. Yep. But there was nothing for me to say he's going to do this. And for other people I know. That seems to be the main thing. There are no, there really aren't signs. And you know, I can say that I've met people who right before someone dies, they say, I'm contemplating suicide.

And that's like minutes to just hours before they die. But it's not something like a month ahead of time where you're like, are you planning this? Because I, I know of two cases in the just over two years that my husband passed that have actually been planned. And it doesn't mean that there aren't others where they're planned.

It's just that in my particular experience, they're not, it's, it's a split decision. Mm-hmm. and, I just wanna encourage people. Yes. Check on your friends or if someone says something, you know, say, are you thinking about doing that? But I agree with you a hundred percent.

Sadie: Yeah.

And it's definitely very interesting as we think [00:25:00] about this, like it's such a complex issue and as you think about the research that's been done about specifically male suicides and then the different factors that can come with struggling with mental health or mental illness, with impulsivity and decision making and the feelings that come with being depressed, which is that it feels like things will never shift.

You feel overwhelmed. It feels like there's no solution. How your, your thoughts and biologically things shifts when you are experiencing those challenges. There's so much that goes into it and I think yeah, it's really difficult to, to boil it down and be like, these are the signs that you look for and.

check on your friends, because this might happen to anyone. Like definitely, there's a lot that goes into it and there's a lot of things that happened before that point, especially with relation to mental health challenges. And a lot of points to intervene and get support or try to support someone regardless of whether they're struggling with suicidal ideation or just mental health in.

Alexandra: Absolutely. And I think it also creates this sense of we can save people. Yeah. Now, don't get me wrong, because when you can intervene and, [00:26:00] and work with people to help them out of that place, but it also, in my opinion, kind of shifts the responsibility onto those around the person. And then if something happens, it's like, well, wait, what did I do?

Or why didn't I stop them? Or how could I not save them? and in my experience, you know, I've, I've worked as an occupational therapist in hospitals with individuals who have survived attempts, and I was stuck with, well, why didn't, why didn't my husband survive the attempt? And I think it was just he wasn't supposed to.

And that's really hard to swallow. Yeah. That is like, really, really hard to take in. But to separate, you know, myself from the situation and go, he was in a lot of pain. This was his out. I don't, you know, if he had the clarity that his soul has now, I don't think he'd make the same decision. But in the moment, this seemed like the best way to end his pain.

Yeah, absolutely.

Sadie: And one of my favorite things to do whenever. Anything with mental health is involved. And I'm like, is there a stigma [00:27:00] coming into play here? Especially when people do what you're talking about. Like could it have been preventable? Could interventions have been made? Or like check it with anything related to physical illness?

Like if you had a loved one that was struggling with cancer and they ended up passing away, would you be like, why didn't the family perform surgery? He'd be like, no. Why didn't the doctor make this medical intervention? Same thing goes for mental health. Obviously there's a lot of barriers to receiving mental health care.

And not to say that like if someone were to commit suicide, you'd be like, this is the doctor's fault. But a lot of these interventions, again, it is a mental illness, and so when you are struggling with an illness, you go to AA doctor, you seek professional help, you don't go to loved ones and family members.

Expect them to make this extreme difference because they don't have the training to do so. And so it's important to remember that, that, again, that burden and that, I don't wanna say blame because that is such a negative connotation, but that is sometimes what happens. It shouldn't be put on the loved ones because you would never do that in a, in the context of a [00:28:00] physical

Alexandra: illness.

Absolutely. And I like to say that everybody has stuff happen in life. When we hold on to this checklist of that picturesque life like I painted earlier, then our expectations get higher. And when that doesn't happen, we tend to internalize that something has shifted or changed with that mm-hmm.

like something's wrong with us. And I like to say that. Life is gonna happen. We're all gonna have negative things, and it's about how we cope with that. And all of us are gonna cope differently and my husband coped in this particular manner. And I also like to encourage people that when you're feeling good and you're not in that despair, create the routine.

Tap into your tools then so that you're more prepared. Your body is prepared because when you go into that despair, you're not working in your rational brain, you're working in your survival. And so at that point, it's like a sabertooth tiger is coming for you and you don't feel safe, and what are you gonna do?

And your thoughts [00:29:00] are gonna be all over the place and irrational. But when you have tools, and it doesn't mean like your tools are gonna pop up and you're gonna be like, oh wait, let me get out of my survival brain and go tap into this. But it might help you be able to reach out to that safe person and say, I need help.

It might help you to be like, okay, yoga can help me passively get out of this. And so I just encourage people. You know, often when we feel good, we're like, oh yeah, I'm good. And we don't think about those times, but life's gonna happen again and again and again. And to be more prepared to trust ourselves

Sadie: that we can get through it.

Absolutely. And I think that's true for any mental health challenge. If you can do the preventative work, if you can make things easy for yourself, if you can set that foundation. You have the luxury almost of going into autopilot when things do get tough because you've learned the skills, you've practiced them, and then you just implement.

You're not trying to learn and and get better at them. You just do what you know works. And that's the thing that kind of sucks about mental health is we're not born with those skills already. We have to learn [00:30:00] them and get better at them and figure out what works for us and what doesn't. But when you do really hone in.

Skills. It's a, it's a game changer. If you could give one kind of takeaway message to individuals trying to support someone who's just lost a loved one, what would those pieces of advice be?

Alexandra: Yeah, I would say just be there for your person. You don't necessarily have the right words to say. Maybe they need a hug. Maybe they just let them know that you're there, bring 'em some food. I, I always joke about the food thing, but honestly, for a year my freezer was packed with food so that I could grab that.

But I would say just be there and let them know and, and to. Kind of meet them where they are rather than have expectations about what that friendship or relationship is going to. That's, that's kind of my, my big takeaway is, yeah,

Sadie: just be there. I love that. So, so, so important. Thank you so much for joining me today and being so vulnerable.

I know this conversation is gonna help a lot of people, and I think takes a lot of uncertainty out of how to support [00:31:00] someone, and hopefully it'll. Some of the negative experience that you highlighted from those early days when people are putting their stuff on you.

And yeah, thank you so much for joining me.

Alexandra: Oh my goodness. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much of for your time. Course.

Sadie: People want to get your book and continue to follow along. Where can they do.

Alexandra: Absolutely. So the book is available on Amazon or barnes noble.com. It's called The Suicide Club, what to Do When Your Loved One Chooses Death.

My website is forward tojo.com or you can email me at alexandra forward to joy.com and then Instagram,

Sadie: same thing. Forward to, well, I will definitely include all of that in the show notes. And thank you again.

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