166. Amanda E. White on Substance Use in College, Taylor Swift Therapy, & Seeking Help
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Today's guest is Amanda E. White— a licensed therapist and founder of the Therapy for Women Center, a group therapy practice serving clients in 27 states. She is also the creator of the popular Instagram account @therapyforwomen, the host of the Recovered-ish podcast, and the author of the book Not Drinking Tonight and its corresponding workbook. We discuss her past struggles with mental health and addiction and how that inspired her to become a therapist, what she wishes she knew going into college, navigating substance use in college, how to recognize when substance use is becoming a problem and getting help, how she started her popular Taylor Swift Therapy series on TikTok, what your favorite Taylor Swift songs might mean about you from a mental health perspective, and tips on how to find the right therapist for you.
Amanda's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therapyforwomen
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SHOP GUEST RECOMMENDATIONS: https://amzn.to/3A69GOC
About She Persisted
After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 20-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.
a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!
Sadie: [00:00:00] Welcome to She Persisted. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton, a 19 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the University of Penn. She Persisted is the Teen Mental Health Podcast made for teenagers by a teen. In each episode, I'll bring you authentic, accessible, and relatable conversations about every aspect of mental wellness.
You can expect evidence-based, teen approved resources, coping skills, including lots of D B T insights and education in. Each piece of content you consume, she persisted, Offers you a safe space to feel validated and understood in your struggle, while encouraging you to take ownership of your journey and build your life worth living.
So let's dive in this week on She persisted.
Amanda: it probably means that you are watching people around you growing up maybe getting married getting into a relationship maybe moving on in their life in some capacity and you feel really stuck As a culture we do have this especially women I think have this pressure right to Fit in to do what everyone [00:01:00] else is doing pressure to be in the same life stage as your friends and as you get older People split off into different life stages, even if they're the same age.
And I think that that's something that's really tough.
Sadie: Hello, hello, and welcome to She Persisted. I am so excited for this week's episode. It is Taylor Swift week because we have been getting so much Taylor content. Cruel Summer is a number one hit five years after it came out. Taylor is in Kansas City. 1989 Taylor's version is coming out, things are happening, and it just so happens that the episode I scheduled for this week talks about Taylor Swift therapy.
So like, the power of Taylor is undeniable, and I'm so excited for this conversation. I'm giving a full disclaimer and warning at this point that this is for the Taylor Swift fans We talk a lot about Taylor Swift lyrics, mental health related Taylor Swift songs We of course talk about other mental health [00:02:00] topics, but like half the episode we're talking about Taylor Swift So if you're not a Swiftie I wanted to give you that warning, because I know not everyone is, but I definitely am.
Amanda is our guest this week, and so we geeked out on Taylor Swift, and it ended up working out perfectly, from a release schedule perspective. So, our guest this week is Amanda White. She's a licensed therapist and the creator of the popular Instagram account, Therapy for Women. You might have seen her TikTok.
She has an incredible account. I've been following her for three or four years at this point. She is also the host of the podcast, Recovered ish, and the author of the book, Not Drinking Tonight. She is the founder of the group therapy practice, Therapy for Women, which is also in Philadelphia, and we talk about so many things in this episode.
We talk about substance use in college. We talk about her experiences there. We talk about what to be aware of, understanding when you might be having an unhealthy relationship with substances and choosing to be sober and not use substances at a [00:03:00] younger age, especially if that's not necessarily something that your peers are doing and how to set those boundaries, all of that.
We have not talked about this side of mental health and substance use in the podcast before. We have some incredible episodes with people talking about their journeys into recovery. We've talked about the teenage brain and substance use. We've covered a lot of topics, but we haven't talked about the actual process of realizing Maybe sobriety would be helpful, how to go about that process, shifting your relationship, setting those boundaries.
And so I was really excited to have Amanda come on the podcast and shed some light here. And then we switched gears for the second half of the episode and do a Taylor Swift deep dive. We geeked out, we talked about Taylor Swift therapy, which Amanda has an amazing TikTok and Patreon series about. We talk about Different lyrics and what they tell you about you.
We talked about what songs you're listening to and what that says about your mental health. We talked about our favorite Taylor Swift songs. We talked about, like, [00:04:00] sonical choices. Like, the most random things. But we had the best time going back and forth and it was just a really Fun perspective to chat about when it comes to mental health.
So, I really hope you enjoy this conversation. We go a little bit of everywhere. And again, I'm still, internally, my heart is happy that this is coming out on the 1989 Taylor Swift release day. So, I hope you love this episode. As always, make sure to share with a friend or family member. Post on social media.
You know the gist. Leave a review. And DM me what your favorite Taylor Swift song is. Because I want to know. I want to know if you agree with our opinions and perspectives, what your thoughts are. Definitely let me know what you think. So with that, let's dive in.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Amanda. I am so excited to have you on She Persisted.
Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, Sadie.
Sadie: So, I'd love to start with your background and your story.
I know you share a lot on your platform about your own experiences with mental health and how that brought you to being a therapist. But, give me your background and how you [00:05:00] started working in the mental health field and your journey to getting where you are today, and especially... starting Therapy for Women, , and having a very unique approach within the therapy world.
Yeah,
Amanda: absolutely. So, I feel like my story's long, so we'll, we'll do the abbreviated version. , essentially, I struggled a lot with my mental health growing up. I moved a lot growing up, and that definitely contributed to just feeling like I didn't have a lot of friends. I felt disconnected. Things like that.
I had anxiety, depression, ended up developing an eating disorder, and then in college ended up really falling into patterns of addiction with alcohol. , and prescription drug use and things like that. And, , yeah, I was pretty depressed throughout that time and really kind of went from being a very much like people pleasing good girl in high school to everything kind of exploding in college when I kind of couldn't keep it together anymore.
And after college I felt like [00:06:00] I had to pick up those pieces and figure out Who I was and what I wanted and I was very overwhelmed at the idea of What career I wanted essentially because I struggled so much in college And I ended up finding a really wonderful therapist who was really authentic about the fact that She struggled with her mental health and she was in recovery And it changed my life so much that I became inspired to become a therapist myself.
And that's what I did, and I got into recovery. , and then I ended up working at a rehab for a few years as I got my license. And then afterwards I opened Therapy for Women, which started with just me. And just like my previous therapist, I really wanted to be open about My own struggles, I just saw firsthand what a difference that made for me in being able to be comfortable.
I had seen a lot of therapists before that growing up, and I lied to pretty much [00:07:00] all of them because I didn't want to admit I was struggling, or I cared more about that therapist feeling like they were doing a good job with me than being honest. So, yeah, was kind of the whole reason that I started Therapy for Women.
I was scared that, you know, it may not resonate with people, but I really feel like the right people it resonated with. And then as I got full and I started hiring other therapists, my whole, mission really became hiring therapists who've been in therapy themselves, who use self disclosure as appropriate, who really, lead from authenticity, so that when people go to see them, they feel comfortable.
In the same way and we've just kind of grown from there and I, I grew my Instagram account really as an extension of that, of trying to reach more people, trying to share therapy tips, but also because I struggled so much with my mental health, [00:08:00] I've just never been a therapist who can really be like, you do this, you do that.
I really speak in terms of like, Us and we because I still struggle with my mental health. , yeah, so
Sadie: yeah I love it. I want to dive in on your college experience and your college journey because we have a lot of listeners who are either currently in college or that is very close on the horizon, so I would love to get your perspective and experience for Students that are going into college if there was anything you wish you would have done differently Support systems you would have put in place things you wish you would have known and after that I'm definitely gonna ask about substances in college because that's something that's really a challenge for a lot of people but first starting out with the transition, What was that like?
What do you wish you would have done differently? And then, what do you wish you knew going into that? Yeah,
Amanda: so I really think that what was really hard was, I struggled a lot in high school, and I put all this pressure on myself that college would be the best time of my life. And I really felt like people said that to me.
After struggling so [00:09:00] much, I really believed that, and I really felt like I needed to get into the best sorority, I needed to have the best social life, I needed to be popular, I needed to date, like, the coolest guy, and the coolest frat, and it really created a lot of alienation from me, and I think that...
It is a struggle to transition. It's a big change to go to college. You're on your own for the first time. Probably you're away from parents. There is a, there's a lot that's going on and I felt so much pressure for it to be the best time of my life that I don't think I really thought about that.
And instead of. supporting myself or thinking about my mental health, I really just kind of dove into partying as the solution to that and really had this belief that if I was quote unquote cool enough, all of my struggles wouldn't exist. And that's just not true. [00:10:00]
Sadie: Yeah. What do you, , say to clients now who come to you?
And I'm sure this happens at many stages of life where they want college or a certain new job or a new opportunity or a move to be the best time of their life. And it's challenging because you don't want to be like, well, just accept it's going to suck and continue along. But also like you were talking about, it can be really emotionally challenging when you glamorize it so much and hold yourself to a certain standard and have these expectations.
misconceptions about what you think it's going to be like and then you don't allow yourself to actually experience what you're experiencing or set boundaries or pull back. So how do you navigate that now? Hindsight's 2020 with being excited about things and wanting things to maybe be different than they were at high school or a different point in your life, but also being more realistic and giving yourself more grace.
Amanda: Yeah, I think the best way to approach it is people really And I still do this. I think it's human nature that we just look ahead and we say, I will be happy when this happens. Right? Like, my problems [00:11:00] will all be solved when I do this. Like you said, when you get a new job, when you're in a relationship, when you have kids, when your kids grow up, all of these different things.
And we really forget that we bring ourselves wherever we go. So, yes, obviously our environment impacts us. But if you are struggling with your mental health in high school, It is extremely likely that you are going to struggle with your mental health in college. So, not just looking at your environment change or the transition as the solution, and instead, living your life now, doing everything you can to take care of yourself now, and then continue building on that as you go into the next thing.
And I think a lot of times instead what we do is we just say, That will be the best time, so I don't need to worry right now, and I'm just going to survive right now, and then everything will be good, and we completely miss the fact that there's like a gap that needs to be bridged, [00:12:00] and if you aren't setting those habits now, or working on your mental health now, or whatever it is you need to be doing, changing your environment isn't going to magically have those in place.
You need to create the life you want in the future, today.
Sadie: Yeah, yeah. I completely agree with that, and I think that's... Something that is realistic in high school because you have a better foundation for your habits in high school I like to say college is optimized for avoidance like your class schedules all over the place No one's forcing you to eat your meals.
No one's forcing you to Sleep go to gym class or sleep at a certain time. Like it's just very different so if you can get those systems in place in high school and be able to thrive when you have less autonomy Yep. Then once you have more freedom in your schedule, you're like, I've done this before.
I have these habits in place and now I can continue them when there's less external control around them. Yeah, absolutely. I would love to get your thoughts on substances in college because obviously, Many college students either drink or experiment with different substances. It's [00:13:00] very integrated into most colleges cultures and for some it's just like part of the college experience.
And then you mentioned it really became a challenge and it became another aspect of your mental health that you were navigating. So, how do you describe that experience and how you wish college students approached substance use as a whole?
Amanda: Yeah, I think that like you said, College is set up for just, we go from kind of like for a lot of us, very structured, you know, living at home with your parents, high school is structured, to then potentially all this wide open space, no one is policing you.
It creates a really good environment for substance use to thrive, especially for people who don't have a lot of experience with substance use. I think it's naive to say... People just like shouldn't drink or people should wait till they're 21. I think in some ways if you look at the way Europe is set up.
It does kind of So, you know, obviously there are studies that say different things, but I [00:14:00] think in general when you look at the research, there is a lot less extremes than in America where we go from nothing to everything, , which just can create this, like, I think obsession a bit or really big interest in drinking because it is so something that a lot of times people think it's forbidden until a certain point.
So, I mean, I think the first thing to do is set yourself up with, like we said, trying to keep those habits in place as you go to school. Maybe don't set yourself up with your schedule being like all over the place right away. If you're used to getting up at a certain time, maybe keeping that schedule.
But there's a lot of change that's going to happen in college, and I think the most important thing to remember also is that People don't recognize that alcohol especially isn't a drug that just makes you happy. It's not going to, if you're feeling really anxious and upset, it's not going to just switch how you feel.
Alcohol actually is known to expand the current [00:15:00] feeling that you have. So if you are feeling anxious or sad, you are more likely to continue to feel that way. And people also don't understand how alcohol impacts the brain. So it turns off, right, like the front part of your brain that is responsible for thinking about the future, worries.
It's the part of your brain that kind of is your gut reaction in some ways and says, this feels a little unsafe or a little off. But that also makes it very effective at just like tuning out your problems. But the problem is, is you're not actually dealing with your problems. If you are just drinking, you know, over your anxiety, you're going to wake up the next day.
And a lot of times actually, , it's where the term anxiety has come from. It actually, because alcohol is a depressant, it literally makes your, , your body tries to fight against depressant to stay in homeostasis. And as a result, your brain produces hormones that produce anxiety, like cortisol, for example.[00:16:00]
And then what happens is alcohol leaves your brain and then you wake up the next day and you're just left with some of the cortisol, all these anxiety producing hormones, and you feel a lot of times more anxious the next day after drinking. So I think that's one thing that I just like really wish more people knew because it is just so misunderstood and people think alcohol is just this numbing, substance that will make your problems go away.
That's not true.
Sadie: Yeah. When you were in college, at what point did you realize, and also, of course, this also applies if you've worked with clients who are currently in college, , and I think a lot of these experiences are very similar, but at what point were you like, maybe this isn't just fun anymore, and it's starting to impact my mental health, or this relationship maybe isn't as healthy as it was when I first got to college?
What were the markers whether it was thoughts or behaviors or changes in your routine for listeners to be aware of?
Amanda: Yeah, I mean, I think what's interesting is that denial can be really thick [00:17:00] and especially if you are around a lot of people who are doing the same thing as you, it can be really hard to be reflective in those moments and recognize that Maybe this is going down a bad road.
So I wasn't super reflective because I felt like my drinking was like everyone else's. I never got a DUI. I never like, you know, had college police called on me. I never got in trouble with an RA or anything like that, but I started drinking alone and that was a huge change and a huge marker for me. I started, if I was having a bad day, , , using alcohol as a coping skill to deal with my mental health issues and struggles rather than it being, I mean I still, you know, celebrated or partied and went out with people but I also started using alcohol to deal with negative emotions and I think that's a really big marker to look out for and it's something that can just kind of change the way that you drink and create this negative cycle that you get into.
Sadie: 100%. And I [00:18:00] think that's something that is pretty easy for college students to be aware of because it is so social focused. It's not like you're at dinner and one person will get a glass of wine and everyone else doesn't. It's like most people are drinking to go out. And so if you're drinking outside of that, or when no one else is going out with you, it's a very clear line of like, okay, maybe this isn't as effective as it could be.
When you realize that Things weren't going how you wanted them to and that you've started to lean on substances more as a coping skill How did you approach that? Did you ask for help? Did you just try to? Manage that yourself independently like what was that process like because well some college students might be in the same position I feel like it's not as common for students to be like, you know what?
I think I need to be sober for a while I think I need to stop drinking or I think I need help unless that you hit rock bottom like you talked about these experiences of DUI or I got in trouble with police or I got kicked out like something like that. So how did you navigate
Amanda: that?
Yeah, so I, I mean, I [00:19:00] did not get sober until several, like until I was 24. So it took me time. And this, I mean, this in hindsight was a warning sign, but I really got obsessed with controlling my drinking. I kept saying to myself, okay, well. The problem is also, you know, the other marker I think for me was I was getting significantly more drunk than my friends I was doing things that was negatively impacting my friendships.
I would like leave people when I was out at a bar, I, I was causing chaos where my friends felt like this is dangerous and you need to stop putting us in this position. , so my approach became, okay, well, right, alcohol isn't the problem, it's just how much I'm drinking that's the problem. So I started doing a lot of things to try to control it, like, Not doing shots, only drinking beer, only drinking wine, not drinking hard alcohol, you know, not pre gaming as much, doing all these things.
And while inherently, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, it can be helpful for people. For me, I was [00:20:00] too far gone that all I was kind of doing was just delaying, I think, the inevitable because most of the solutions I was trying, they didn't work. They didn't work because if you are getting to the point where you're like blacking out, where you're losing consciousness, you lose total control.
So you may go into the night being like, okay, I'm only going to have four or five drinks or whatever. But once you hit the point of not remembering, you're not there. Like no one's home.
Sadie: So you can't control it. Yeah, and I think that's definitely very tough and also another pattern for people to be aware of and I think It goes for many mental health challenges that you think these things are really unique and you're telling yourself these things that you're like, well, no one else is saying that and when you hear people saying the same things whether it's like Oh, I was tired, so I took a nap, or I missed that class because I wasn't feeling well.
Like, whatever it is that you're internally saying to yourself, I think hearing that other people are also saying the same things can also be a wake up call to be like, okay, other people are making the same excuses, and maybe it's [00:21:00] not. As legitimate as you're like talking yourself into, , when you are in the thick of it.
So I think it's really helpful for listeners to be aware of. I want to take a quick detour and talk about Taylor Swift. Yeah. Because I love this series that you've been doing and I'm a huge Taylor Swift fan. So for listeners who don't follow you on TikTok. Yeah. Tell us about Taylor Swift therapy.
Amanda: Yeah.
So it's funny. I started doing it because, , a few years ago I did this TikTok that was like, My favorite sessions with clients, because I happen to have a lot of clients who love Taylor Swift. And I said this TikTok that ended up going viral that was like, My favorite sessions with clients are the ones where they tell me what song they can't stop listening to.
Because it gives me so much insight into what they're going through. And people started messaging me being like, I can't stop listening to this song. What does that mean? , so I started taking requests and I started doing that . So I essentially just kind of like break down lyrics. A lot of times the songs are songs that I relate to, or they're songs that some of my clients have discussed with me that have kind [00:22:00] of like mental health lenses that you can interpret them with.
So, , yeah, that's kind of how it started and people loved it so much. I actually started doing like longer breakdowns on my podcast and also I have a Patreon where I do like 30 minute breakdowns of songs as
Sadie: bonus episodes. I love it. Can we do a couple as examples for listeners? Okay, perfect. , do you have any in mind that are like very universally applicable that most people know?
Because I know not everyone's going to be a niche Taylor Swift listener.
Amanda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Let's see. I think a lot of people know the song Peace. Yes. , so I think that one is a really powerful one that talks about, to me, I mean, if you've watched Long Pond Studios, , you know, the documentary, Erin Destner does kind of echo this, but she's saying how, would it be enough if I can never bring you peace?
I can give you my best, but like, the rain is always gonna come, , when you're standing with me, it's just around the corner. And she's, you know, [00:23:00] she said that she wrote it about fame, but I really think if you look at it from a mental health lens, a lot of times I've talked to clients about it who've been in a relationship, They are the one that struggles with their mental health.
Maybe they have a partner that doesn't. And they feel very connected because they feel like I'm always going to be, you know, struggling in some way or I'm always going to have some sort of issue that I'm working through. I'm not like a peaceful person that will just be really calm in a relationship.
You know, maybe you're someone who has some anxious attachment and you kind of like push back and forth or you push your partner away. And, ... They really connect to, to that and feeling like can this person still choose to be with me even if I'm not going to be, you know, the peaceful person in the relationship.
Sadie: Yeah, another one that everyone is giving their two cents on is Right Where You Left Me. This was my surprise song when I went and I was so bad. Like my favorite albums, like my top three on Spotify are [00:24:00] Lover, Reputation, and Midnights. So I really like A
Amanda: pop girlie for sure. Yeah,
Sadie: exactly. Like I really like , Jack Antonoff's production, which I know is a hot tip.
Some people are like, I wish he wasn't still producing. I love it. I do too. Like, when Midnight's came out, I was like, this is so good. So anyways, I, like, listened to all of the Folklore and Evermore songs, but I didn't know them as well as I know all the pop songs, like every single word, every single reference, etc.
So. It was terrible of me, but I didn't know all the words when she played right where you left me But I listened to it a bunch after and now everyone is talking about being stuck in the restaurant So yes, if people are listening to right where you left me on repeat. What does that mean? Give us the yeah analysis ,
Amanda: it probably means that you are watching people around you growing up maybe getting married getting into a relationship maybe moving on in their life in some capacity and you feel really stuck and you literally feel like you're stuck in the restaurant as everyone else is Moving [00:25:00] on and I think it is a very universal feeling that is it's really hard to watch over I think we've all experienced that in some way maybe not in the exact same way But as a culture we do have this especially women I think have this pressure right to Fit in to do what everyone else is doing pressure to be in the same life stage as your friends and as you get older People split off into different life stages, even if they're the same age.
And I think that that's something that's really tough.
Sadie: Yeah, what about afterglow because afterglow is my it's for the anxious girlies It's for the insecure girlies, and I'm like, it's just such a good song I know it comes from such a like, please reassure me about everything, but it's such a good
Amanda: song.
It is a great song I love afterglow. I would agree with that. I think it's I think there's definitely, I think that and The Archer are very, like, lots of anxious undertones, for sure. I think, it's also, though, kind of beautiful in both of them because she is kind of taking responsibility in [00:26:00] them.
She's saying, don't leave, I messed it up. She's taking responsibility, which is different than some of her earlier albums. , but yeah, I would say there's anxious tendencies. For sure. I haven't done a super deep dive on Afterglow compared to The Archer or some of the other songs, so I don't, I can't recite all the lyrics off the top of my head, but I keep thinking about, right, like, it's on me, don't go, like Mimi in the Afterglow, , and like, after being in a fight with someone, I think, a lot of times, even if someone isn't in a romantic relationship, they can connect to the sentiment of turbulence, right?
Even if it's like... I messed up a relationship with my friend, family member, right, like, even I think you could mess up something at a job or something. And hope that someone will give you that grace and meet you in the place where you've apologized and meet you
Sadie: there.
Totally. Have you done an analysis on Labyrinth? Because I feel like that would also be a really
Amanda: interesting one. [00:27:00] I need to dive into that one more. There's definitely, obviously, a lot of anxiety, I think, in that one. One thing I've started to do too, if any of your listeners like this kind of stuff, also, there's a really amazing podcast called Switched on Pop.
Okay. And they actually, because I'm much more of like, you know, I'm a therapist, I am into the lyrics and the words, but it's really cool to hear they go into the different albums and break down some of the, production. And the production choices she made and some of the things like are, some stuff is obvious, but some stuff isn't obvious.
, and one thing that's really cool if you love Midnight's, they did a episode on Midnight's and they talked about, you know, how in Midnight's a lot of the songs don't ever kind of, , crescendo for lack of a better word like the beat never fully drops And they talked about that as a whole metaphor for being up in the middle of the night Not ever getting [00:28:00] relief that even they said kind of with how the beginning opens in Lavender Haze very Like, you know how her voice is distorted in different songs, right?
In Lavender Haze, in Midnight Rain, and they talked about that as a production metaphor for, like, not recognizing yourself and being half asleep. And the anxiety is why the beat never drops, which I thought you should definitely listen to that episode. It's really
Sadie: cool. That's crazy. Okay, we've completely derailed from material.
It's okay. I'm so fine with it. The last one that I'll ask you about, because I do think people have a lot of thoughts on it, if you haven't done an analysis, that's okay, would've, could've, should've. Like I feel like for the emotional girl, is that one like really broke the internet?
Amanda: Yes. I, I love that one so much. I really do think it's pretty literal in terms of like looking back on old relationships. I think it could be a situation that you're looking back on too, Years later, a different perspective [00:29:00] and recognizing how, like, messed up it was. , I think it is so interesting to compare it to Dear John.
Yes! And even if you go into Paper Doll, which is the song that John Mayer wrote about her, , it's Woulda Coulda Shoulda, there's a lot, but, , what does she say? a promising grown man. Which was such a cool, like, flip on promising young woman. Yeah. Just like really showing how he took advantage of her and how we say that to women and then blame them, right, if they've been sexually assaulted or, you know, it's like their fault because they had all of this promise and there is no, like, there isn't a narrative about how men shouldn't take advantage of women, right, it's women should stop dressing a certain way because it's their fault and they invite that in.
Sadie: Yeah, the other two that I think very much broke the mental health world is You're On Your Own Kid,[00:30:00] and This Is Me Trying. Like, those two, I feel like people deeply resonated with from, , a mental health side of things. And are very interesting to listen to from that lens.
Even if it wasn't necessarily like written from that perspective. I think both are very, she's so good at putting things into words. It's the best part about Taylor Swift. She just describes things perfectly. So I think those two were also very much meant to help. I totally agree with
Amanda: that. Yes, yes. I've done, I've done both of those before.
And I, I totally agree. I think You're On Your Own Kid is just one of the absolute best songs she's ever written. It's one of my absolute favorites. It's so good the progression. I mean, I think one of the coolest things of Midnight's is The lyrics are so even the chorus like almost every every chorus changes in a small way, which is just So high level.
I loved mastermind too. I think a lot of people related to You know, being controlling and like, being manipulative, , because of our anxiety, because of wanting things to work out,
Sadie: too. If you fail to plan, [00:31:00] you plan to fail. Yes! What can you say? Yes, exactly. Exactly. Oh my gosh, I love it. Well, , to wrap things up, the last thing that I want to ask about is for people that still haven't found, , the therapist they've really resonated with.
Yes. You talked in the beginning about how that was such a game changer in your journey. If you were to approach the therapist searching process now, and even when you're working with new clients and doing intakes, what are the things that you tell people to be aware of or that you yourself would try to be aware of?
Even just things that are helpful to know if you're like, I'm trying therapy but I don't really think it's the right fit yet, but I want to build that relationship because it's so important. So what's your advice there?
Amanda: Yeah, I think it's hard because a lot of people have not great experiences maybe with therapists and they come to the conclusion that therapy isn't for them.
And there are as many different therapists as there are people. Like, I really believe there is a therapist that will serve you, that will change your life in some way. And , it's kind of like dating, you may have to try a couple [00:32:00] different ones. I would say don't be afraid to ask questions.
You have a right to get your questions answered. You have a right to say that this isn't a right fit. I see a lot online people saying, you know, I feel bad, I don't, how do I break up with my therapist and things like that. Yes, your therapist works collaboratively with you, but your therapist also, works for you.
Like, you're the one that is paying them in some way, or your insurance is paying them in some way. And the most, when they look at research about what makes therapy effective, the number one most important thing is your relationship with your therapist and whether you feel like you can trust them and be honest.
So even if it's something that you can't put your finger on, Like, it seems like this therapist should be right for you, but you don't feel comfortable, it doesn't matter, find a new therapist. Yeah.
Sadie: I love that. I think it's a very helpful reminder, especially coming from therapists, because especially if you've never been to therapy before, there's so much ambiguity, [00:33:00] like you talked about in your own experience that like, what if the therapist gets mad at me?
I don't want them to think badly of me or about this therapy process or that I failed therapy. And so to hear that it's okay to look for a different therapist, it's okay to switch and that the first one might not be the right fit, I think is a very helpful reminder. , because there is so much.
Much unknown there because it is something, especially if you're doing individual therapy, you're not talking to other people that are meeting with the same therapist. It's not group therapy where you're like, wow, we did a great session today and then sometimes you're like, we talked about nothing for an hour.
So it can be challenging to have that opinion and formulate it and feel really secure in it. So I think that's a very helpful reminder for listeners to have.
Amanda: Yeah,
Sadie: absolutely. For people that want to follow you on social media, continue to consume your content. Keep listening to. Therapy with Taylor Swift and all of the analyses.
Where can they find you? Yeah,
Amanda: so you can find me on Instagram at Therapy for Women. TikTok at Therapy for Women. That's where most of my Taylor Swift therapy content [00:34:00] is. And then my podcast is called Recovered ish. , and I have a Patreon by the same name that has deep dives on Taylor Swift content. I have a couple episodes on Taylor Swift.
Not make my whole podcast Taylor Swift. Like, this
Sadie: is what I'm doing today, is I'm like really over amplifying the interest in Taylor Swift. I'm like, I love Taylor Swift, everyone else gets to listen to this now, this is now.
Amanda: Exactly. I've also done some Olivia Rodrigo songs, so I do some other stuff too.
And then if you're interested in therapy, my therapy practice is, you can find more at Therapy for Women's Center. , we're located in Philadelphia, but we actually have therapists across the country licensed in 27 states. , if you're interested in telehealth.
Sadie: Amazing. Well, I'll put all that in the show notes.
Thank you so much. This was incredible.
Amanda: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, Sadie.
Sadie: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of she persisted. If you enjoyed, make sure to share with a friend or family member, it really helps out the podcast. And if you haven't already leave a review on apple podcasts or Spotify, you can also make sure [00:35:00] to follow along at actually persisted podcast on both Instagram and Tik TOK, and check out all the bonus resources, content and information on my website.
She persisted podcast.com. Thanks for supporting. Keep persisting and I'll see you next week.
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