119. A TEEN'S GUIDE TO THERAPY: Finding a Therapist, Avoiding Red Flags, Unique Challenges, and Breaking Up with your Therapist feat. Shani Tran

Oct 25

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Today's guest is Shani Tran—therapist and author of Dope Therapy who focuses on educating around cultural humility and working with people of color, who have historically been underserved by the mental health community. We discuss how she began her career and achieved TikTok fame, tips for starting therapy for the first time, red flags to avoid when finding a therapist, the stigmas around therapy and unique mental health challenges faced by teens, and what to do if therapy isn't working for you— including breaking up with your therapist.

Shani Tran's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theshaniproject/

Mentioned In The Episode…

+ Dope Therapy by Shani Tran

+ Shani's TikTok

SHOP GUEST RECOMMENDATIONS: https://amzn.to/3A69GOC

Episode Sponsors

🛋This week's episode is sponsored by Teen Counseling. Teen Counseling is an online therapy program with over 14,000 licensed therapists in their network offering support with depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, and more via text, talk, and video counseling. Head to teencounseling.com/shepersisted to find a therapist today!

About She Persisted (formerly Nevertheless, She Persisted)

After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.

https://youtu.be/MSIjujxncTU

a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

[00:00:00] Sadie: Welcome to She Persisted. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton, a 19 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the University of Penn. She Persisted is the Teen Mental Health Podcast made for teenagers by a teen. In each episode, I'll bring you authentic, accessible, and relatable conversations about every aspect of mental wellness.

[00:00:19] You can expect evidence-based, teen approved resources, coping skills, including lots of D B T insights and education in. Each piece of content you consume, she persisted, Offers you a safe space to feel validated and understood in your struggle, while encouraging you to take ownership of your journey and build your life worth living.

[00:00:37] So let's dive in this week on She persisted.

[00:00:42] Shani: I feel like we've just become this society that doesn't really wanna tell people how we feel about the relationship that we are in with them.

[00:00:51] Yeah. That therapist, if you were seeing that therapist, that is a therapeutic relationship. It requires work from you and also the therapist. So if you're. Anything is not working. Talk about therapy in

[00:01:05] Sadie: therapy

[00:01:06] Hello, hello and welcome back to She Persisted. We are talking about therapy again, and today we are getting a therapist perspective on a lot of frequently asked questions that I get asked or that I had when I was navigating therapy. Today's guest is Shawn Tron. She's an author, a therapist.

[00:01:23] She also has an amazing TikTok presence, so you should definitely check out her videos and follow her. We talk all about the anxiety and discomfort that can come from asking for help, meeting with a new therapist, switching the therapist that you're working with, all of these things that you might have anxiety or concerns about.

[00:01:41] So my goal is that if you listen to this episode, you feel a lot more comfortable and confident going into your therapy journey or continuing your therapy journey and getting support.

[00:01:50] We also talk about the very important and sometimes challenging process of finding the right therapist for you, making sure that you have a good fit with your therapist, that that relationship is in a good spot. . And if you wanna know more about all these topics, she has a book called Dope Therapy, which you should check out.

[00:02:07] And I will link in the show notes, where she just goes into way more depth on all of these things. She just has such an amazing perspective. I cannot wait for you guys to hear this conversation. And as always, make sure to follow, subscribe, leave it, review. If you haven't, follow on social media at Shape Assisted Podcast.

[00:02:24] And let's dive.

[00:02:26] Thank you so much for joining me today, Shawn. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast and yeah, I just can't wait to dive into this conversation.

[00:02:33] Shani: Yes, thank you so much for having me. I love talking mental health, so let's

[00:02:37] Sadie: get it. Let's do it. Awesome. Well, I'd love to start with a little bit of your background.

[00:02:42] How you working in the mental health field and what brought you to where you are?

[00:02:46] Shani: So what started me in the mental health field, I feel as if that's such a voted question. Yeah. Cause there's so many different narratives that I have that sort of play like a role. But essentially where it mainly started is I fell in love with psychology in high school.

[00:03:03] And then when I was in undergrad, my first major was actually theater and I had this revelation one day, I don't know where it came from. And I was just like, I don't wanna be auditioning for a job like for the rest of my life. Yeah. And I was like, I think I can always come back to theater. And so I ended up changing my major to psychology and I got my first job in working with children who were autistic.

[00:03:32] And from there it just sort of, Became my thing to make sure I had a lot of experience in different areas. So from there, when I graduated from undergrad, I got my first job working in a jail. Then I decided to get my master's. I've done day treatment with teens. I've worked in the home with parents and teens, private practice.

[00:03:54] I've worked on the insurance side. But ultimately where I am today, I have always had a love of theater. And so TikTok came along and I started creating skits to help people navigate therapy. And I guess you could say TikTok loved it. And that's where we are today with what I mainly.

[00:04:15] Sadie: I love it. Were there any common threads that you noticed from all of these different therapeutic settings that you think would be helpful to share? Like all of these people are experiencing similar emotions. Are there similar fears or challenges that people are experiencing that don't discriminate across these different settings?

[00:04:35] Shani: You know, I think more than anything, I really just wanted to connect with people on a human level. I think about my own sort of narrative when it starts in undergrad. I mean, you're sort of thrown into this huge social environment. Can we be honest for a second look like no legit life skills? And when I say life skills, I mean like managing money.

[00:05:01] I mean, my first semester I ran out of money on my what do you call it, Your meal. and then it was like, how do I even know, what do I do? How do I eat after this? And so for me it was, I grew up with very strict parents and so I was struggling with drinking and really just finding myself. And so I went to see a therapist and I didn't really feel

[00:05:23] seen as a person, and so when I was working through all of these jobs, I really wanted to make sure that I see the person regardless of like they are diagnosed with autism, depression, anxiety, if they're teen in the system. I really just wanted to connect with. The human behind all of that. So essentially I found that in listening and truly listening to people, I found sort of my specialty as far as connecting and helping people find like, what is it that you really feel you want from life that is going to bring you joy, that will create happy?

[00:06:04] Sadie: I love that. You touched on therapy and that's what we're gonna talk about for most of this episode. I wanna start by talking about, Before therapy when Yeah. You think it might be helpful. I've done a lot of episodes talking about, okay, how do I know if this is maybe a step I should take? How do I know?

[00:06:19] Mm-hmm. is if things maybe aren't going as well as I think they are. But I really wanna touch on all of the stigma and anxiety and apprehension that is associated with beginning your therapy journey. Because I think even for. Starting any therapy session with a new therapist. Mm-hmm. is really scary. So I'd love to kind of talk there first, giving your tips about what to do.

[00:06:39] Okay. Those emotions come up. And then kind of your perspective on why you think that is something that so many people experience, whether it's like a society thing or it's just being so vulnerable, et cetera. Yeah. So if listeners are like, I am so scared to start therapy, but I feel like this is a good step, what is your advice?

[00:06:57] Shani: So it is scary and I wanna normalize it because if you think about it, when we sort of meet someone for the very first time, it's more so sort of that surface level conversation. Hi, how are you? Are you in school? Are you do full work? But when you go see a therapist, it's like, tell me what are your vulnerabilities and what are your weaknesses?

[00:07:19] What are you struggling with? What do you cry about at night? Tell me this complete stranger that you don't know. So that's. I don't know if I trust you. I think that's really the biggest thing that fear comes from when it comes to going to therapy is, I don't know if I trust that coming into this room, that therapist will create a safe place for what I need.

[00:07:41] That's like one piece of it, and I think another piece that it comes. What is therapy? Even like, especially for people that may have never gone or if they have gone and they sort of had this like experience that tainted therapy for them. So that can also add to fear on different levels as well. So what I always say is just what is it that you want from the experience and recognizing.

[00:08:08] You know yourself, so you may know, Okay. I don't know what I mean, but I know that things are off in my life right now. And I like to say off because I don't want to sort of encourage self-diagnosing. And so it may be like, Ugh, I'm just not focusing. I feel sad all the time. I wanna hang out with my friends, but I don't really text them back like, what's going on?

[00:08:28] So you recognize something's off and. What have you recognized maybe in the past for yourself that was helpful? Was that okay? A friend that really listened to me? Was it someone that offered you feedback? Was it someone that made you laugh? And so if you can sort of pick out those little things when you go to Rita Therapist's profile, look for some of those same feelings that may be evoked when you're reading through the profile.

[00:08:56] People may read a profile that. I use C B T, or I use D B T. And for someone that knows what those terms mean, so cognitive behavioral therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy may be like, Yes, I know that's what I need, but someone that is like, I don't know what that is, may then want to read profiles that say like, I meet you where you're at.

[00:09:17] One of the things that I do when I work with my clients is I listen to them. We collaborate together. That may. Okay. That's what I'm looking for. So you kind of start with what may have been helpful in the past to be able to see if you can recognize that in a therapist's profile when you're reading

[00:09:34] Sadie: through it.

[00:09:35] That's such a great tip. And I think depending on the website, they also sometimes will say like, Oh, I have a background in family systems or self-esteem. Yes. Or mm-hmm. disordered eating stress, sleep, therapist specialize in all of these different things. So if you kind of know going into it like.

[00:09:52] This is what I'm really worried about. This is what I wanna focus on first. You can totally find a therapist that specializes in that area, has a lot of experience, and you can just hit the ground running and get a lot of great tips and advice and support from the get go. . Yes.

[00:10:06] Shani: And then I wanna add something to be mindful of is if you go to a therapist's profile, however, and they're like, I do cbt, I do D B T I also, you do everything, have trauma, I work with stress.

[00:10:17] Ah, for me as a therapist, that's a red flag because you have all these. Skill sets in all these different areas. That to me is like, what is it that you are good at As a therapist? Mm-hmm. . So if you read them profiles and it's just this long list, I'm always

[00:10:31] Sadie: like, they like check every single box on the website.

[00:10:34] You're doing too

[00:10:35] Shani: much. You're doing too much. Yeah. So you

[00:10:36] Sadie: work with everybody, huh? ? Yeah. Another really good thing there is the, the age demographic. They're like, I work with adults and little children and teenagers. Mm-hmm. , those are really, really different types of therapy. So yes. Look for adolescent or a teenage therapist that works with a whole caseload of other teens and they're like, Okay, so it's s a t season.

[00:10:56] How are you feeling about that? Or like, All my clients are complaining about college apps. What is going on there? Yes. That can be really effective to be aware of during the therapy search.

[00:11:06] Shani: Oh, definitely. If you sort of come across a therapist that says they work with trauma, a great question to ask maybe. Okay. So you say you're trauma trained and you work with all of these demographics. I want to know, how do you help me say, A first generation immigrant who is 19, who is struggling with trauma, how would you help me?

[00:11:27] Mm-hmm. , that may be helpful to also sort of like weed through that

[00:11:30] Sadie: process. A hundred percent. What are your thoughts on why these emotions are, are so universal with starting therapy like that apprehension, obviously you touched on it's really vulnerable to go in and meet something new.

[00:11:43] Do you think there is like still stigma that we're experiencing in society or do you see it more as the individual emotional block and having this new experience?

[00:11:53] Shani: I feel like it's getting better these days because we're now having the conversations from, you know, within our immediate support groups to schools, to corporations, really just like not just having the conversation, but also bringing in the experts to navigate the conversation.

[00:12:14] And so the reason why it was a huge stigma is, It's passed down through like narrative if you think about it. So what did your parents' parents say about therapy and then hear about therapy? You know, so I sort of think about my parents therapy wasn't something that was an option or talked about in our communities to be like, Oh, you're struggling in your marriage.

[00:12:37] you should go talk to someone. No. Yeah. That's not what was told. And so if that's not what they're told, how would they know to tell me any different? So I learned about mental health in school. That's where I really learned about how to navigate it. What does it look like to go, How do you advocate for yourself?

[00:12:56] And even today as a therapist, I'm still learning. And through my learning, educating people,

[00:13:02] Sadie: that's something that I really like. , Gen Z and the newer generations is, I feel from my own experience, and I've heard this a lot in these mental health conversations, is that teens really pull their beliefs about mental health and therapy from their peers.

[00:13:16] Mm-hmm. . So I notice that there's kind of that separation from what their parents are believing, but they're like, My, my friends are in therapy. I wanna be in therapy too. Yep. Or like, this is what I'm experiencing with my mental health and this is what my friends are talking about at school. And I believe that.

[00:13:29] And so I think that's something really. Amazing to have that kind of sense of self-advocacy and to kind of collectively make that shift and ask for help when you need it. And being able to for that. I think that's something that's really cool to see. Yeah,

[00:13:47] Shani: and I think it's really beautiful to see too.

[00:13:50] Yeah. Because you feel. Alone in the experience. I think it's one thing to be experiencing, say anxiety, but it's another thing to experience it alone. Yeah. To, to really feel like someone can truly. Get where you're coming from and validate it, like they may not understand it. So let's say if you have a friend that's never had anxiety, but when you talk to that friend, you really feel like they hear you and they validate you that there's something so special about that versus talking to someone, they're like, Yeah, so just get out of bed.

[00:14:26] Just take a deep breath. You got, just take a deep breath and it's like,

[00:14:30] Sadie: eh, it doesn't really work like that. Yeah, I think that's something that's also added to the equation is that teens today are experiencing more mental health challenges than we ever have before and more stress and are operating at a different level.

[00:14:44] So even if you haven't experienced anxiety, you've probably experienced stress at some point or some apprehension or fear. So there's a lot more. relatability amongst the population because so many people have either experienced something themselves. Mm-hmm. , or have a very close friend or family member or peer that has

[00:15:03] Shani: oh my gosh, I really hope that parents hear that. I want parents to hear that so much. Cause I feel like sometimes, especially when I've been working with teens and parents in the past, you can sort of hear this. What do you have to be stressed about? Yeah, stress can look different for everyone.

[00:15:21] Like, okay, yes, the parent may be stressed about bills or taking care of the home, but that doesn't mean. A teen can't be stressed about their exam or their homework or you know, their friends, their body changing. They do have stress. And I mean, I even think about teens today. When I was in high school, I didn't have to worry about school shootings.

[00:15:43] Yeah. Teens today do my drills were like fire drills. And the one where you get under the desk, Oh,

[00:15:51] Sadie: stop, stop, drop and roll . Don't do. Yeah, don't do that in an

[00:15:57] Shani: earthquake, guys, we really thought stop drop was gonna save our life. I've never had to do stop drop,

[00:16:01] Sadie: literally. I've never seen it happen.

[00:16:04] Like that would not be something that would come to mind if there was a fire. Like,

[00:16:08] Shani: and so I think about sort of even just navigating that where They do active, you know, shooter drills. Yeah. And it, and it's a reminder, right, that this can happen. So you're maybe going through the school year, you know, and then it's like, oh, it's that time of the year.

[00:16:22] So stress can look different for everyone and it doesn't matter the age, Even two year olds can be stressed out cause they're not getting a lollipop. Yeah. So I think that to sort of belittle someone's stress, just because they're not an adult is, it's unfair.

[00:16:39] Sadie: Yeah. We also have to remember that teens brains aren't fully developed.

[00:16:43] So even if you're like, Well, I wouldn't be stressed about that, the way their brain works, they're more emotional, they're less able to ration through things and logic through things. So even though you're like, Oh, well if you were a little bit older, you wanna be stressed about this. Well, they are right now, so that's not gonna help them.

[00:16:56] Yeah. And adults

[00:16:57] Shani: act like we've never been teens before. ,

[00:17:00] Sadie: Yes. Yes. Oh, well. Like if you

[00:17:01] Shani: can just stop and remember what it was like being a teen, I think that'll just change your whole perspective.

[00:17:08] Sadie: That's one of the best things about having a Teen Mental Health podcast is I have so many adults on the show because they can offer so much inside and expertise that teens maybe haven't fully gotten in their life, but can benefit a lot from hearing mm-hmm.

[00:17:18] But every single time I do these pitch emails and get on these shows, everyone. You know, my teenage years are so rough. I'm so glad that I'm able to maybe help someone else through this. Everyone has that universal experience of being a teen was really hard no matter where they're at now. Yes.

[00:17:32] No matter how great things are now, or how equipped they are to navigate their challenges, it's really a universal

[00:17:37] Shani: experience. Yes. And the last thing I'll add to that is I sort of think of adults that were like, Oh gosh, no, I'd never do high school over. And I'm like, So you'd never do high school over.

[00:17:47] But in the same sentence, you almost say like, teens have no stress.

[00:17:50] Sadie: Hmm. Yeah. Let's think about that . Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:55] Today's episode is brought to you by Teen Counseling. You guys know I can't have a therapist on the podcast without bringing up teen counseling because it's such an amazing resource. If you listen to this episode and you're like, Okay, I'm feeling less anxious. I definitely wanna get support. I feel like I know what to look for in a therapist, but you're also not totally sure.

[00:18:14] Where to start? Where do I find a therapist? Teen counseling can be an amazing way to find a therapist that fits your needs. If you aren't familiar with teen counseling, it is better. Helps branch specifically for teenagers. They have over 14,000 licensed therapists within their online network. And offer support on things like depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, and so much more.

[00:18:33] They offer text talk and video counseling all from your home. So depending on what level of support you're looking for, they can meet you where you're at. So if you are interested in checking it out, you can go to teen counseling.com/she persisted. Again, that is teen counseling.com/she persisted to find a therapist that meets your needs.

[00:18:52] So the other side of the spectrum, we talked about getting into therapy, we talked about navigating those initial anxieties. I kind of wanna go. In the complete other direction and talk about what you do when you feel like maybe therapy isn't working and you're like, I feel like I need to try something different.

[00:19:08] I'm not feeling better, I'm not seeing shifts. do you do at that point? what are the things that you would want someone to look for other than like, this is just so difficult. I just wanna quit. Obviously that's one perspective. But there is the concept of maybe this isn't the right match of a therapist.

[00:19:25] And so it's very possible to be in therapy and be like, maybe this isn't the best fit. That is the potential outcome. So what's your advice there of what to look for and then how to proceed?

[00:19:36] Shani: Yes. So I wanna first like, thank you for asking that question because even though I'm a therapist, I, I don't necessarily believe that therapy is the only way to go about seeking help, because we also have to remember that therapy isn't accessible for everyone.

[00:19:53] If that's socioeconomic status or if you're a part of a community such as like, BT Plus or Bipo community, and you can't find a therapist that looks like you or relates to you. So I think about all of those factors. And so if you find that therapy isn't working, it may be helpful to sort of identify why you feel it's not working.

[00:20:13] Is that because you feel your symptoms are getting worse? And that could be symptoms or things like, you know, you're not sleeping, your appetite, your energy, is it that you feel like you go every time and you sort of walk away? I just don't feel better. Cuz if you can identify the cost, that helps you to be able to figure out, Okay, so what do I do next?

[00:20:37] So one of the things may be the therapist might not be a good fit. It could be for several reasons. That therapist may not be a good fit. Maybe it's their style. Maybe the techniques that they're using aren't helpful for what it is that you're experiencing. Maybe they don't have experience in the area or concern that you're bringing into the sessions.

[00:20:57] So all of those viable options. The other thing is sometimes people aren't ready for therapy and I think that's valid. It takes a lot emotionally, and I think a lot of people sort of see therapy. I'm going in one hour a week. Boom. That's the work. Oh, no, no, it's outside. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Is outside of the session.

[00:21:17] That one hour, like if you sort of like put it down, let's say you're awake like 16 hours out of the day, right? That's one hour, and that's just one day that you see a therapist, and most of the time you're sort of like processing the action.

[00:21:33] Steps takes place outside the session because most of the time we want behavioral changes. In order to get behavioral changes, we have to actually put that into action and sometimes people may not be ready. A great example might be, I don't like the way that. My mom talks to me every time I go home from college, right?

[00:21:51] So then you may talk to your therapist and they may be like, Okay, so let's set some boundaries. You may not be ready to implement the boundary with your mother. So then, yes, you continue to talk about it, but the necessary step is going to be taking action. So at that time, you may say like, Okay, great.

[00:22:09] I've sort of come to the point where I feel comfortable. I've recognized that boundaries are needed. I'm just not ready to take that step. But also remembering that it's important to surround yourself with community and support so that maybe other friends or another adult that you can talk to.

[00:22:25] And one of the other things. Yep. I'm gonna say it. I know people journaling. I'm gonna say it. Journaling is so important because it gives your thoughts a place to go, and if you're working on yourself, being able to look back and reflect and see where you were, let's just say a month ago, and where you are today can really help you with like, Oh, I've been writing about the same thing for the last month.

[00:22:51] Nothing has really changed. Okay, where do I see improvements in my life that I can sort of like switch around

[00:22:58] Sadie: a. Yeah. I also love what you said about not necessarily being ready for therapy, because I feel like that's something a lot of teens experience if they aren't necessarily the ones spearheading this journey.

[00:23:10] If you're listening to this podcast because you're like, My parents are making me be in therapy, I don't know what to do about it. I'm just looking to either speed this long, whatever it is. But especially in being a teen, that's something that's really unique that you don't see in.

[00:23:24] Other demographics, whether it's adults struggling with all these different things. If they're in therapy, a lot of the times it's because they're the ones that have advocated for that. As a teen, there is a high likelihood that maybe you weren't the one that made this decision, whether it was a counselor or a teacher, or a parent or a doctor.

[00:23:42] So, It takes time to kind of, not only warm up to the idea of being in therapy, but develop your own reasons for wanting to make shifts and see changes and get better. And so I think that's something to also be aware of when you're like, Is this working? Do you want it to work? Because for a long time I was like, It's just not gonna work.

[00:24:00] So I would go through the motions. I would show up the sessions. I would front out the clock. But I didn't wanna get better. I didn't believe that I could get better, and so I didn't see any changes. And so it definitely is a key step in the process wanting that for yourself and deciding what you're working towards.

[00:24:16] And it can be different from what your parents are hoping for. Maybe your parents are like, her grades are so bad, so that's why she's in therapy to. Develop better skills, and I don't know, do better in school, but maybe you're like, I'm just so stressed all the time, and that's why I don't have the energy to work on school.

[00:24:31] So I wanna work on stress and being able to have better ways of navigating that stress. So I think that's another thing to be aware of as a teen.

[00:24:39] Shani: Yeah. And the other thing too that I want to add is it's totally okay to tell your therapist. I actually don't wanna be here and my parents want me here so that the therapist can really hear your side even though you're a teen.

[00:24:53] That therapist is your therapist, not your parents' therapist. And if your therapist is reporting to your parents, what you are talking about in the session that it's not okay as parents are not supposed to have access to your notes unless, for some reason it's mandated reporting. And mandated reporting may be like child abuse or that you're gonna harm yourself.

[00:25:13] And not just saying, Therapist

[00:25:14] Sadie: myself should be telling you that they're Yes. Telling your parents

[00:25:17] Shani: that. Yeah. Yes. Oh, absolutely. And knowing too, like if you don't feel comfortable talking, you can do things. I've totally sat down with teens and sometimes we play puzzles to like, Build rapport because sometimes you're doing activities and you don't even realize that you're talking and it sort of like warms you up and feel more comfortable.

[00:25:35] So if you don't wanna be there

[00:25:37] Sadie: ask for therapist. I bring Buddy TikTok talks to sessions like,

[00:25:41] Shani: Hey, Oh, definitely. Does not just have to be talking, I think about sometimes I used to have clients that would come in early in the morning and they would like lay on the couch, say, get the pillow, get the blanket, and then I'd let them sort of sit for like 10 minutes and then it's like, Hey, what do you wanna do?

[00:25:57] You wanna play game, You wanna do puzzles? How can we sort of make this your time and not the time that your parents are telling you to come

[00:26:06] Sadie: here? Yeah, I think that's huge. So if you've identified that it's not the right fit, you're not seeing the shifts that you want to, you've been like, I feel like I'm invested in this.

[00:26:17] I'm giving it my all. Mm-hmm. still, I'm not seeing the outcome I want. How do you break up with a therapist? Because that's something that you can do. It's something that is okay to do. It's okay to switch providers. Mm-hmm. . And I feel like most people don't know that. You're like, I have one therapist.

[00:26:31] I rest of my life, that's how it's gonna work unless I move or have this crazy change happen. No, you can switch therapists. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. How do you navigate that transition? And then what is helpful for you to hear as a therapist? Have you ever had someone. I don't, not like ghost, but text me back.

[00:26:48] I'm done with therapy. Bye. Obviously it's helpful to be here. Okay, like I think this is what I'm gonna try and focus on. Or I'm gonna try some time outside of therapy and then maybe revisit. So what are, what are your thoughts there?

[00:26:59] Shani: Yes, so the first thing that I would say is there's several ways that I see with breaking up with a therapist.

[00:27:05] If you're someone that knows. This isn't gonna work. It's okay to ghost. I wanna validate that we're not your friends, so you're not ghosting a friend. It's a very, And

[00:27:18] Sadie: your therapist, so many skills to be able to navigate that. Exactly. Like it's not some emotionally unstable ex-boyfriend. They're gonna be fine.

[00:27:25] Yes. They will move forward. Yes.

[00:27:27] Shani: Now, don't get me wrong, we think about you. Yes. Cuz I've definitely had where I'm like, man, I wonder where that client is today. Mm-hmm. . And I wonder if they're okay. So that's the first thing you can

[00:27:37] Sadie: Totally. That's why I think I bring so much to the play as a therapy client because I'm like, they can just listen to my weekly podcast.

[00:27:44] They know exactly how things are going. Oh yes. . It was really so funny. That's true. Pat Therapist, if you're listening. Hi. We're doing well. So it's going okay.

[00:27:54] Shani: They're like, Okay, great. Good to hear. Another thing that I would say is asking yourself, like, why is it that you wanna break up with new therapists?

[00:28:01] Okay. So short story, I did try to break up with my therapist. So the best way I can describe it is it was the new therapist that I had started seeing. and the way that their scheduling was set up was different than what I was used to. So I, as a therapist, when I get a new client, you get on my schedule and then I just add you.

[00:28:21] It's just every two weeks, it's just a reoccurring appointment. This particular therapist makes the appointment after every session. That's weird. And so I was like, Oh, I don't know. So that means like, What if there's someone that you saw yesterday and they're like, I need five sessions next week.

[00:28:36] And then the spots are 11. I don't know. So it sort of, And like there's

[00:28:40] Sadie: a day for therapy. You're like, Tuesday's therapy day, I save up all these emotional things to talk about for Tuesday. Mm-hmm. , and then we reset. That's just how the world works.

[00:28:49] Shani: Exactly. So that for me was different. And then I remember I was like, Oh, well I just wanna do a reoccurring appointment.

[00:28:55] And I remember the therapist I think reacting like in a way I was like, Oh, you don't like reoccurring appointments. So I, I made the next session and then I emailed them immediately afterwards and I was like, Hey, I know, I was like all in my feelings and I was like, I didn't like the way you looked at me when I asked for the appointment.

[00:29:11] I'm just letting you know. I don't

[00:29:12] Sadie: wanna work with you

[00:29:13] Shani: anymore. and so you can email them. Here's the thing though. My therapist was a great therapist, and they were like, No, Shawn, you can't email me. I'm gonna call you. Oh no, , about your email that you sent me, and I ignored it. But then she left me this really beautiful message and she's like, I'm hoping that you will allow me to explain myself and.

[00:29:37] Let's talk about it and you actually not get charged for it. I'm gonna give you a free session to talk about this. And I was like, Oh, wow. You really care about this? And essentially what it came down to is they explained to me how their scheduling was going. And they had never had anyone ask, Well, can I just get a reoccurring appointment?

[00:29:53] And so it threw them off. It wasn't that they didn't wanna make it, they were just trying to process how to handle. and we ended up continuing to work past that rupture and it ended up being really great. So I say you can email, but I say knowing why, Because if I would've just sent that email and not responded to the voicemail, I would've been without a therapist.

[00:30:17] But the therapist took the time to explain to me and I was like, Oh, okay. So I don't need to end. So you can email. Another thing is talk about it in your sessions. Like if you're sitting there with your therapist, a good therapist can handle constructive criticism and feedback. So if you're just like, Hey, I just wanna let you know this isn't working for me, the therapist can help you figure out what isn't working?

[00:30:36] Is it the therapist's style? Because here's the beautiful thing, Therapists are ethically required to give you referrals. So if you tell your therapist, This isn't working for me. And this is why that therapist can offer you referrals to help you find a therapist that may be working, which takes the legwork

[00:30:53] Sadie: out of it.

[00:30:54] Yeah. I think also you are using a lot of really great skills to be able to have that tough conversation and. Set that boundary and whether it's a phone call or an email or in session you're doing the therapy work just in that when you have someone on the other side of the couch or the table or whatever it is, who is really, hopefully very effective and has a lot of experience using these skills, you're building that muscle of having tough conversations, setting boundaries and advocating for yourself, which is something that's really cool.

[00:31:22] And I think worth celebrating if you can set that boundary and make that shift. . Yeah.

[00:31:28] Shani: And advocate for yourself too. Yeah, I think it's also effective communication skills where I feel like we've just become this society that doesn't really wanna tell people how we feel about the relationship that we are in with them.

[00:31:43] Yeah. That therapist, if you were seeing that therapist, that is a therapeutic relationship. It requires work from you and also the therapist. So if you're. Anything is not working. Talk about therapy in

[00:31:57] Sadie: therapy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that. For listeners who want to continue to consume your content, you have a book coming out.

[00:32:06] Mm-hmm. and just continue to follow along with you. Where can they find you? So

[00:32:11] Shani: I always say it depends on what you wanna find . . If you want more of sort of the straightforward mental health contents, you definitely can find me over on TikTok if you want. More of sort of a personal insight to not just mental health content but my life.

[00:32:28] You can find me on Instagram cause that's where I like to hang out with stories. And then of course, if you were just trying to navigate therapy in general, you can purchase the book Dope Therapy where books are sold. Barnes and Noble Walmart what is that? Amazon, There we go. , Amazon. Which literally can guide you through.

[00:32:48] How do you find a therapist? Questions to ask a therapist to see if they're a great fit, how to do the work in the session, understanding trauma, how to break up with your therapist and there's exercises in the book to be able to help guide you on your journey.

[00:33:03] Sadie: I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:33:05] I'm so excited we got to do this, and I know this conversation is gonna be so helpful for so many people. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Of course.

[00:33:14] Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of she persisted. If you enjoyed, make sure to share with a friend or family member, it really helps out the podcast. And if you haven't already leave a review on apple podcasts or Spotify, you can also make sure to follow along at actually persisted podcast on both Instagram and Tik TOK, and check out all the bonus resources, content and information on my website.

[00:33:35] She persisted podcast.com. Thanks for supporting. Keep persisting and I'll see you next week.

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