148. Should You Discuss Mental Health When Applying to College? feat. Emi Nietfeld

May 20

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Today's guest is Emi Nietfeld— an author, mental health advocate, and speaker whose works include her 2022 memoir Acceptance and her viral New York Times essay on her experience working at Google. In this episode, we discuss how she incorporated her mental health journey into her Harvard admissions essays, how to navigate the college admissions process when your mental health has affected your transcripts, how to disclose your mental health experiences on college applications, what types of support systems can make an impact on college admissions, how competition with your peers can affect the application process, and mental health reminders you need to hear when applying to college.

Emi's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eminietfeld/

Mentioned In The Episode…

+ Emi's Website

+ Emi's Newsletter

+ Acceptance: A Memoir

SHOP GUEST RECOMMENDATIONS: https://amzn.to/3A69GOC

Episode Sponsors

🛋This week's episode is sponsored by Teen Counseling. Teen Counseling is an online therapy program with over 14,000 licensed therapists in their network offering support with depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, and more via text, talk, and video counseling. Head to teencounseling.com/shepersisted to find a therapist today!

About She Persisted (formerly Nevertheless, She Persisted)

After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.

a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

[00:00:00] Sadie: Welcome to She Persisted. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton, a 19 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the University of Penn. She Persisted is the Teen Mental Health Podcast made for teenagers by a teen. In each episode, I'll bring you authentic, accessible, and relatable conversations about every aspect of mental wellness.

[00:00:19] You can expect evidence-based, teen approved resources, coping skills, including lots of D B T insights and education in. Each piece of content you consume, she persisted, Offers you a safe space to feel validated and understood in your struggle, while encouraging you to take ownership of your journey and build your life worth living.

[00:00:37] So let's dive in this week on She persisted.

[00:00:41] Emi: I think when we're experiencing a mental health problem or really any kind of sickness, like it can kind of take over our life and it can feel like it's this really big thing that has to be written about or talked about. And I think for college applications, that's not usually the most helpful way to think about it. Where it's actually, even if people aren't talking about mental health problems, it's so, so common that not something that you have to disclose and that choice should really be made like strategically for what you're looking to do in college.

[00:01:16] Sadie: Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of She Persisted. If you're new here, I'm Sadie. I'm from the Bay Area, but I am an incoming junior at the University of Pennsylvania. And this is episode two of our Little College Mental health series. I've done a couple episodes and mini-series in the past about college and mental health, whether it's being a college student and navigating mental health challenges.

[00:01:38] Or how to approach the college application process when it comes to the stress associated with that, or talking about your mental health and college applications. But it's been a while since I did like a dedicated series of episodes and brought on guests and experts from different perspectives.

[00:01:53] we're doing that again, and I'm doing it right at the beginning of the summer. So as you're writing your applications, as you're finding out where you're going to school as you're beginning to think about that process, you have these conversations as a resource.

[00:02:05] . So today we're talking about something that was extremely relevant to my own college application process, which is how to talk about your mental health and your essays if you choose to do so. Of course, as we talk about in this episode, you never have to talk about your mental health in your college application essays, but if you feel like it relates to why you're passionate about what you wanna major in, or it's a big part of you as a person, it shows a lot of your strengths and character traits.

[00:02:30] Maybe it's something you want to discuss, and this was definitely the case for me. So much of why I wanted to go to Penn and study psychology and pursue a career in the mental health field was my own personal experiences with mental health. That's why I started, she persisted. It's why you're even hearing me record this episode today. And so it was very important for me to touch on my mental health journey and all of the amazing things that came out of it. Whether it was the podcast, the conversations I'd had, the teens, I was able to help support through this show and through everything that I did on social media to share the show and create that resource.

[00:03:03] So it was something I was incredibly proud of and I definitely did want to share. It was my biggest passion project in extracurricular. And so, When it came time to write my essay services question of how do you frame your mental health, because I felt a lot of pressure, and we touched on this in the episode, to really form a phoenix rising from the Ashes narrative.

[00:03:23] And I don't know if that's necessarily the case and if that's that some of you guys relate to, but for me, I felt like when I was running this essay, it was like, I've struggled with my mental health in the past. This is what came of it. I've done this amazing thing because of this struggle. And that was the.

[00:03:38] Foundation, but now I'm in another stage of life. And I think that's something that lots of teens deal with when it comes to deciding, if you wanna mention your mental health and your college essays. And while we're moving away from it, we're still in a day and age where there is mental health stigma and there still is that fear of what will people think if I open up about what I'm struggling with and, and talk about this and share my experience.

[00:03:58] And so our guest this week, Emmy, shares her story so beautifully. She really is just amazing at articulating this experience, sharing from her perspective. And I loved this conversation. I related it to it so much, and there were so many parallels, whether it was like how many schools we attended or how you're writing rest.

[00:04:15] Phase and it was really fun to connect with her and get this perspective. And I think it's swing that's very top of mind for a lot of high school students. And even interesting to hear as a college student to get these perspectives. And if you have any applications and your future or any situations where you're deciding if you wanna talk about your mental health, this conversation is definitely a valuable one.

[00:04:36] So today's guest is Emmy Neat Feld. She's an author, a mental health advocate, and a speaker. Her memoir came out in 2022. It's called Acceptance. It's phenomenal. I read it. She was so lovely to send me a copy and I loved reading it before this interview. She also has a really incredible viral New York Times essay where she talks about her experience working at Google.

[00:04:56] She's just so vulnerable and transparent about all these different aspects of her life, whether it was navigating college admissions, foster care, college itself, and then her career afterwards. So in this conversation, we talk all about how she talked about her mental health experiences in her Harvard admissions essays.

[00:05:13] We talk about navigating the college admissions process when your mental health has affected aspects of your transcripts, whether it's attendance, grades, et cetera, which is a huge question a lot of people have. We talk about disclosing your mental health experiences on college applications. What types of support systems can make an impact on college admissions?

[00:05:30] How competition with your peers can affect the application process. And of course, mental health reminders you need to hear when you're applying to college. So, so grateful that Emmy sat Tom with me. This is a phenomenal conversation and I hope you enjoy

[00:05:44] well, thank you so much for joining me today, Emmy.

[00:05:46] I'm so excited to have you on. She Persistent.

[00:05:48] Emi: Thank you so much for having me, Sadie. I love this podcast.

[00:05:51] Sadie: Yay. So, I would love to start with your background and how you got to where you are now. You're writing a book, you have this amazing story. I'm really excited to just dive into all things college applications and mental health.

[00:06:03] But before we get there, what is your story, your background that got you to where you are today?

[00:06:08] Emi: So a little bit about me is I'm from Minnesota. I grew up super religious, evangelical and I was actually a bible memorization champion when I was Oh my goodness. In fourth grade. Yeah, I, I still have the verses with me.

[00:06:21] And then when I was about nine years old, my parents separated and then divorced. And both of my parents had mental health struggles and my mom especially dealt with compulsive shopping and hoarding and so, That was my first introduction to the mental health system was when she brought me to the doctor and she was like, Hey, my daughter is Disorganized, chronically late, like, can you treat her for this?

[00:06:45] Mm-hmm. And so I was really medicated before I had problems, and then I started to become really depressed and anxious and suffered from an eating disorder. And I wound up going to the hospital a bunch of times when I was 13 and 14 and 15. I went to a residential treatment center, like a locked facility.

[00:07:03] And then I spent time in foster care before. I got a scholarship to boarding school and then dealt with like homelessness. During breaks because I couldn't go home. and the whole time I was, I was really obsessed with education and with college admissions and I saw that as like, this is my path out to a better life.

[00:07:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:24] Sadie: Yeah. One thing that I think it's so interesting, there's so many parallels. I also was hospitalized for the first time at 13 and then went to a residential program and then a therapeutic boarding school, which was a little bit different, but it's so interesting. Yeah. How there really is like this track that.

[00:07:38] Teens will take when they're struggling with their mental health and all these different things that are tried to, to support them. It's very interesting how similar so many stories are. Definitely.

[00:07:47] Emi: Yeah, and I think it's really wonderful that like you shine a light on the ways that mental health treatment can be lifesaving wonderful, and then other ways where permutations of it can be really

[00:07:58] Sadie: harmful.

[00:07:59] A hundred percent. So it is literally college application season. As we are recording this, people are waiting to find out, almost everyone has submitted. They've just come out of this insane season of stress and when this episode goes live, probably the next round is like beginning to think about things.

[00:08:17] They're like, summer is when I should be writing. So let's start brainstorming. What I'm gonna say, and I remember a very similar experience what you described both in telling your story and then also in your book, which is that there really does feel like there's this pressure to.

[00:08:31] Tell your story is like a phoenix rising from the ashes type of moment where you're like, okay, I did struggle, but now things are different and this is what I've done with this struggle. And I was so interested by this concept, especially as I was applying. I did a couple of episodes a few years ago about this and.

[00:08:50] Interviewed friends to see what their experiences were when they hadn't necessarily struggled with mental health, but still went through this really intense college application experience. I interviewed someone who was on the other side of it in college admissions, and she had a really interesting perspective that when teens have struggled with their mental health, it actually is sometimes an asset because the worst thing to happen is you get to college, you've never struggled before.

[00:09:13] And so many people struggle their freshman year, whether it's with making new friends, loneliness, anxiety, stress, overwhelm, bad habits, like this is the time when people experience a lot of mental health struggles. And so the worst thing is almost to never have any experience get there and be like, I don't have the tools to deal with that.

[00:09:31] So that was an interesting take. We'll dive into that, but I would love to hear your experience with the college application process, especially feeling like there was so much on the line and like really wanting to craft that perfect narrative.

[00:09:42] Emi: Yeah. When I was applying to college, it, I'm gonna date myself, but it was 2000, 2009.

[00:09:48] Okay. So it was the middle of another recession. Yeah. Which might feel familiar to people now. And I was very aware of college affordability. Mm-hmm. And just how expensive it was. And so I. Like a lot of students, I felt not only this pressure to go get into college, but into a college that could give me a lot of financial aid.

[00:10:11] Yeah. And so I, I started really an earnest, like thinking about this when I was a junior in high school, and even though I was attending a private boarding school, They didn't have the type of college counseling resources that you might think that a private school would have. So there were like three counselors for 500 students.

[00:10:33] But every year there were 250 graduating seniors. Wow. So that ratio is actually like a lot better than, than most people in the United States. But my counselor just did not have the resources for me. And so I. Applied for pro bono help from a private college counselor. Named Dr. Kat Cohen.

[00:10:54] And she, she took me on. And so that was really, really helpful because I don't think I could've managed the process by myself. And the hardest part of managing that process was, you know, I had this complicated mental health history and it was tied up. Like it is for most people with other factors, right?

[00:11:12] With being in foster care with you know, my living situation. And so I was struggling with how do I, how do I present what happened? In a way that like they can even understand. Yeah. So at first I was completely honest in my Yale early action essays, and then I was rejected and it seemed like, okay, that is too much information.

[00:11:33] So then for regular decision, I had to figure out how do I, how do I not scare them with my mental health details, but still show like, here's what happened. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:44] Sadie: Yeah, it's so interesting there's really that, it's not dumbing it down, but it's like making it very palatable and it's also just feels like such a risk because I know hopefully people that are listening to, she persisted that have like sought out a resource on mental health.

[00:12:00] They're open to talking about mental health. They're accepting of it. Yeah. They, they know that something people deal with, but the. Process of college admissions is, it's like, who is reading your essay? And I've heard people say before, it's like, have they had their morning cup of coffee? Is it a good day or a bad day?

[00:12:14] Like that's what it feels like. It's getting down to, yeah. And so when there's this added element of mental health where there's still a lot of stigma, mm-hmm. It's like if you get someone that shares different views to you, what will that mean for your future? And what will that mean for a potential acceptance?

[00:12:29] And it's just such a complicated and stress-inducing process.

[00:12:34] Emi: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's, you know, admissions officers are just people and they have a certain perspective and they, they might have stigma about mental illness and also they just might not understand. Yeah. Yeah, and that was something that I ran up against in talking to other students who have been in like residential or hospitalized like that, there's just this lack of awareness of like, how, how do those things come across on the transcript?

[00:13:03] Right? And so it really, a huge burden ends up falling on students. And there's not a lot of people talking about like, what should I say? How should I say it? And I think that's really important.

[00:13:15] Sadie: Yeah, let's talk about that. When you're putting together your final packet, you're like, what, 10 pages that have boiled down the past four years of your life if you have received mental health treatment.

[00:13:25] That can look kind of different and then that we'll probably get into this as well, but there is that whole question of like, do I use the additional information box and explain this mental health context? So in your experience, like how did your transcripts and the numbers and all the stuff that wasn't in your personal essay reflect this very unique mental health experience?

[00:13:44] Emi: That's a great question. So my transcript had just this like mishmash of grades. Yeah. I went to somewhere between like five and eight high schools, depending on how you counted. And so I thought, okay, my only choice is really to explain it and to explain here's what happened. But.

[00:14:05] Actually, after I was rejected to Yale, I ended up going back and studying, okay, what does it say for the transcript? And even though it showed all these different grades, it didn't, it didn't actually say like what school they came from. Yeah. And so that basically gave me freedom to decide, okay, here is what I'm going to say.

[00:14:24] And so I ended up writing about, in my additional information section, I wrote about like, This is what happened with my parents. This is what happened with my living situation. But I did not write about the impact on me. I did not mention any, like, hospitalizations. Any time in treatment, I basically completely cut it out.

[00:14:44] Mm-hmm. And I feel really lucky that, that I was able to do that. That was a huge, huge privilege that most people don't have. Mm-hmm. But I'm glad that I was able to, Yeah.

[00:14:55] Sadie: And I feel like that totally emphasizes, like no one is saying that the expectation is that you share this. Mm-hmm. It's only if you feel like you want to, yeah.

[00:15:04] And it's a narrative you wanna lean into like obviously your mental health, like charts would not be put in your college application. Like there's no pressure to ever disclose any of that, especially if you're like, this isn't what I'm applying for. Maybe you're like pre-med and you're like, I'm gonna be a doctor and I love these.

[00:15:20] Internships I did over the summer related to biology being like, oh, and also I struggle with anxiety, might not match up with that narrative. Mm-hmm. And so you always have the option to not disclose that. And there's so many, like legal ramifications about not, they can't ask. There's all those things that are put in place to protect your privacy.

[00:15:36] Emi: Yeah. And. So I just did a piece about this for the New York Times where I interviewed a bunch of students. Mm-hmm. And, and also college counselors. And the college counselors are basically like, you know, share what makes you feel comfortable, but definitely you don't have to say anything. Yeah. The situation that I'm so fascinated by and have so much empathy for is when you went to a treatment program and then when you came back to school, you got a C in your class. Mm-hmm. Because they wouldn't let you, , make up the classwork. And I think that that's where you really start to see how, how stigmatized mental health can be. And it breaks my heart some of the stories.

[00:16:17] But also like I have seen people handle it and disclose successfully where they basically, people often shared as little detail as possible or got a college counselor in their recommendation letter to say, to like, explain what happened on a really high level. Mm-hmm. And answer any questions that might come up.

[00:16:36] Sadie: I remember that was a huge thing for me that I was. Struggling with when applying because my transcripts looked like I had one semester freshman year and then I had a medical leave of absence. And then I did summer school before sophomore year, a year in Montana. And then I went back to school in San Francisco, but then it was Covid, so it was pass fail and I was applying early decisions.

[00:16:57] Oh. So I kid you not, I was applying with. A year and a half of grades, which most people are applying with three years. I had three semesters of grades because I had sophomore year, which that was the other thing that I think we'll get to is like how your academics can be impacted by treatment.

[00:17:14] Mm-hmm. Because that year was a joke. Like there were so many things I didn't learn. I'm in college, I'm taking like statistics and I'm like, I learned zero statistics in high school, or I took pre-calc when I got home and I was like, I don't know any trigonometry because for some reason they didn't place me in geometry.

[00:17:29] They put me straight in algebra two. So it's like that's a whole other thing that gets impacted by By treatment. Yeah. But when I was applying, it was like I had half a freshman year, which that was the other thing. My freshman year school never did grades freshman semester. So all it showed is what classes you took.

[00:17:43] Medical leave of absence. Sophomore year and one semester of junior year because the other was pass fail. And so I was in this position where it's like I'm either applying as someone that they have literally no understanding of because they do look at grades, they do look at what your class you're taking and it's kind of like a question mark cuz it's like there wasn't even anything there for them to look at.

[00:18:02] And then there was like also these different states and all of these other things. Yeah. And so. Then I felt like I could really lean into this narrative because I wanted to become a psychologist. Mm-hmm. I wanted to pursue mental health, and so it kind of allowed me to use that to my advantage and kind of say, this is why this is unique, and I am so passionate about this for this reason.

[00:18:23] But same situation that you talked about where it was like big overview, no graphics, nothing crazy like that because it's like again, you don't know your audience.

[00:18:34] Emi: Oh yeah. That's so. Wow. That's so true. I feel like the stigma of mental health is definitely getting better. Mm-hmm. But that it's also pretty limited in what is acceptable in like quote unquote polite company to talk about where people are are generally okay with like mild depression or some anxiety, but then as soon as it gets into like inpatient treatment or eating disorders or self-harm, it's like, no.

[00:19:01] Like absolutely not. Yeah.

[00:19:03] Sadie: And it's such a weird thing because. You would want someone who is struggling to get resources and show the ability to ask for help and utilize others for support. Yeah. But then once that's like spoken of, you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Wait. We'd rather not. And so it's like this really interesting dynamic to to balance and.

[00:19:24] Yeah, it's just really fascinating. I totally agree with you.

[00:19:27] Emi: Yeah. Unfortunately, I talked to some high school students who were so afraid of stuff coming up in the college application process. Mm-hmm. That they put off seeking help. Wow. And like you mentioned earlier, like that can often lead to the worst case scenario where you go to college and you spend your first two years trying to figure out what medication works for you.

[00:19:49] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:50] Sadie: Today's episode is brought to you by Teen Counseling. If you haven't heard of teen counseling, it is better Helps branch of online therapy specifically for teenagers. They have over 14,000 licensed therapists in their network and they offer support on everything like depression, anxiety, relationships. Navigating college, so many different things. And what's great about teen counseling is that they offer talk, text and video counseling.

[00:20:12] So depending on what kind of support you're looking for, what level of resources they meet you, where you're at, and give you the support that you were looking for. So, If you would like to check out teen counseling, you can go to teen counseling.com/she persisted. Again, that is teen counseling.com/she persisted.

[00:20:28] This is a great option for college students. I had to switch therapists when I went to college because a lot of clinicians are only licensed in certain states. So if you're moving away to college and don't know where you're gonna find a therapist, this is a great place to check out some providers, see if you can find a good fit, and it's amazing because you don't have to deal with wait lists or referrals and all of those things that can be really challenging.

[00:20:49] To get support when you need it. So check out teen counseling. The link is in the show notes. Or you can go to teen counseling.com/she persisted.

[00:20:57] What were some of the other common threads that you heard when you were doing this interview process? You were talking to teens who were going through this exact situation. What were those things that were surprising or very common? And even how those differed from your own experience?

[00:21:10] Emi: Hmm. Yeah, that's a great question. It really astonished me how, how different the gap in support was. Mm-hmm. And so one of the students I interviewed named Gia, she's from Sugarland, Texas, which is a, it's an affluent community and it's also. There's so much stigma there about mental health. Yeah. And then I talk to other people who, like in their communities, it's completely like, okay to talk about stuff and that that gap between who has somebody helping them apply to college and navigate the system versus who doesn't.

[00:21:46] That gap is so big and it was bigger than. The difference between like a student who's never seen a therapist and like a student who's been an inpatient. Yeah. Like it just makes such a big, a big difference. And yeah, and at like small private schools, it was really common that. Counselors would basically cover for students, which I think, I think should be the case, right?

[00:22:09] It's your private, like medical information, but where people really see it as like, oh, this is just like having a concussion. Like if you have to go to the hospital for mental health, like it's not too different than having mono. And I really wish that I had had that when I was a teenager, and I feel like everybody deserves that kind of grace.

[00:22:27] Sadie: Yeah, it's interesting. Again, it speaks so much to where you're living and it's also like where you're applying to go to college and kind of who's reading those essays based on their, the context that they're in. But in the Bay area, for better or for worse, so many teens are struggling with their mental health, especially at these like super competitive, intense academically.

[00:22:47] Stressful environments at these private schools that it was very commonplace for kids to have to go to the hospital or have to get your bed or leave. There was a whole process. They're like, okay, like we'll talk to your teachers. We'll say something like, this is how you'll go back to your classes.

[00:23:04] So there's pros and cons there. It's like, Hey, they know what to expect. They've done this before. You have a smooth transition, but then it's also like, but why is this normalized? Like why are so many teens experiencing this in high school when the best case scenario is that no teens would have to get impatient treatment at that that point in their

[00:23:21] Emi: lives.

[00:23:22] Wow. Do you feel like the counselors there and teachers and stuff had had a system for how to explain it in college applications?

[00:23:30] Sadie: So it's very interesting. The school, I went to three different high schools and the one that I went to freshman year was the one that was like very academically oriented, very high achieving.

[00:23:42] They kind of, I went there for middle school also. It was middle like, Pre-K through high school. So in for middle school and then the beginning of high school. And then, yes. , they know this drell, like 50% of their senior class gets accepted. Ed places like this is an insane high school. It's a very unique situation.

[00:23:59] Them totally, a hundred percent. What I found senior year when I was applying to colleges was that when I was at my local public high school, the way that they approached college admissions was so different. And I think a big part of that was the population that they were catering to. Like for a lot of it was just convincing kids to go to college or convincing them that this could be a good opportunity, a huge push for ucs because those have better acceptance rates, they're more accessible, all of these things.

[00:24:28] And so I remember in. Experience of one giving my application, one of our projects in English was to give our like, A personal essay to our teacher. She would give feedback and kind of give her thoughts. And I remember her not liking it and kind of being like, have you considered writing about something else?

[00:24:46] And then I submitted that essay to Penn and I did get in. So it's one of those things where it's like, do you always trust the feedback that people give you? Yeah. And then I remember going to the college counselor and kind of talking about what I was kind of looking at knowing. Yeah. My background, knowing how passionate it, I was about these things, knowing all I'd done with the podcast and having my parents support and like seeing these goals for myself.

[00:25:09] And it was like the schools that were recommended or the things that were potentially in my horizon were very different. Mm-hmm. And so I kind of did the opposite and I kind of withdrew. I did my own thing. I leaned really heavily on my parents. I didn't work with a college counselor. And I kind of went with people that knew my full story.

[00:25:26] And knew everything that I had been through because it's also so hard to go into a college counselor where it's like, I've been here for one semester. What are your thoughts on where I should apply? Like what do you even say to that? He's like the uc, you seem like a good option. It's just tough.

[00:25:40] And so I found it was really helpful to get feedback from people that knew the full context of my story. Mm-hmm. But it's also difficult because again, that's a huge discrepancy of like, I could go to my parents, but can you read this essay? You've read job applications, you did this process yourself.

[00:25:56] What do you think? And some kids, it's either their parents didn't go to college or they don't have that context, or they have very different views about mental health. And so that's a whole other thing that people have to deal with.

[00:26:06] Emi: Oh yeah. One of the, one of the things I learned during my interviews that was really.

[00:26:12] Gave me hope for the world was that there are these discord servers where students are giving each other help with their applications. I love that. Yeah, and it branched off of QuestBridge, which is an alternative application program for high achieving low income students. But even people who aren't finalists can go and get pure feedback and yeah, I, I wish I had had something like that.

[00:26:37] It's amazing that the kids are doing this.

[00:26:39] Sadie: That's really, really cool. And I found myself doing the same thing almost, where I would go to my friends who were at different high schools, that I was close to get their feedback. We would read each other's essays and it's such an amazing dynamic and it's so different from your peers in your class.

[00:26:54] And I totally understand why. Because in a lot of they are your direct competitors. Like if I was reading a girl's essay about psychology from New York mm-hmm. She's probably not my direct competitor cuz you're put in a bucket based on your district and your high school. Whereas if I'm reading my classmates' essay about psychology and mental health, it's probably like one of us will get into this very specific school.

[00:27:15] And so you see that a lot in these really high achieving schools where everyone's applying to the same schools and you know that 70 kids cannot get into Harvard. Like that's just not how the numbers work. And so there's a lot of hiding where you're applying. Mm-hmm. And not disclosing and judgment about should this person being applying or not, or even, it's just a whole messy process and it makes it so much more difficult to navigate because you can't lean on your friends, you can't lean on your peers.

[00:27:42] You're all going through the same process and yet you're not able to to get support from each other.

[00:27:47] Emi: But yeah, I remember that all too well. Yeah. That was one of the worst parts of the process.

[00:27:52] Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. They even did a policy at one point at the, the like very academically oriented high school where they're like, you're not allowed to say where you're applying and you're not allowed to say until you get it.

[00:28:01] Like it was a thing that you weren't supposed to talk about it because it was causing so much, like distress and conflict, all that kind of stuff.

[00:28:08] Emi: I both see why they would do that, and that's, that's so sad.

[00:28:12] Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I fully went the opposite. I think it was part of like, Trying to be more open with the process, with the podcast and everything.

[00:28:19] But I like talked about where I had already applied for early decision and where I was thinking and now I'm like, maybe I manifested it. Maybe just talking about it so much helped me a little bit. Maybe

[00:28:30] Emi: somebody, maybe for somebody from Penn was listening.

[00:28:33] Sadie: They were like, we, they saw my secret Pinterest board for Penn.

[00:28:36] But that's what it was. That was

[00:28:38] Emi: good. Did it? I mean, if I were an admissions officer, I'd be swayed.

[00:28:42] Sadie: Right? No, it's funny. I'm not the biggest manifestation person, but. It's even if you think about how people are approaching this with like not telling anyone and they don't believe they're gonna get in and they're like hiding it in a secret like that can't be good for trying to pursue this thing that you want, and yet that's very much so the culture of the experience.

[00:29:01] Emi: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:29:02] Sadie: Yeah. So what would your advice be to high school students right now who are struggling with their mental health and are beginning to think about applying to college and how they're going to discuss that in their application?

[00:29:15] Emi: =That's a great question and a huge one. The first thing I would say is don't put off seeking help because.

[00:29:23] You're afraid colleges will find out or something like that because the, the college application process itself is so stressful and potentially damaging that it's really, really good to have that support system in place. Mm-hmm. The second thing that I would do is I would really look at what. Do you have to say?

[00:29:46] And that means looking at the transcripts, looking at grades and attendance, and just figuring out like, okay, what is the kind of bare minimum that I have to explain? And then figuring out, okay, for those explanations, what is the best way to explain them? And that could be in the essay, it could be in the extenuating circumstances.

[00:30:05] But it might be even better if it's in like a counselor recommendation, , where they're used to explaining it. They can give a really high level summary and then there's like no stress on the applicant. Yeah. And then the final thing that I would say is I think when we're experiencing a mental health problem or really any kind of sickness, like it can kind of take over our life and it can feel like it's this really big thing that like.

[00:30:32] It has to be written about or talked about. And I, I think for college applications, that's not usually the most helpful way to think about it. Where it's actually, even if people aren't talking about mental health problems, it's so, so common that it's actually, like you said, it's not something that you have to disclose and that that choice should really be made like strategically for what you're looking to, to do in college.

[00:31:01] A

[00:31:01] Sadie: hundred percent. I agree with everything you're saying so much, and I really do loved what you said about getting help, and it's exactly what I've seen here at Penn and what was echoed in that like initial interview where it's like the worst thing possible, not from an acceptance perspective, but just from a life perspective, is that you wouldn't get the help that you needed.

[00:31:21] During high school, and then you get to college and you realize, wow, this is even more challenging, and I don't have the skills to deal with it. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's so, so, so tough to navigate and it's. I, I still to this day say the hardest part of my mental health journey was asking for help. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:37] Because it's so scary, it's so vulnerable. You don't know what it's the path forward looks like. Okay. And a lot of the time you've been struggling with this by yourself for a really long time, so that's all you know. You don't know anything different. And then the stigma's added onto it. It's a whole thing.

[00:31:52] And so, The, yeah. The worst thing possible is that you would get into a position where you're like, great, I didn't mention in my application, I got into my dream school, and you can't even enjoy it or invest in the academics because your mental health is in such a bad spot. And I, I remember that was one of the biggest things with mental health.

[00:32:11] And my journey is that it's the foundation for everything. Like I always was academically oriented. I always had these goals. I always wanted to go to college, but I had to take a medical leave of absence from high school freshman year because I couldn't go to class or be engaged and all of these things.

[00:32:26] Take a back burner. When you're not able to show up for everyday life without your mental health, you don't have anything. And so we have to remember that even though it can be easy to be like, it's okay, I'll deal with this later, or it's fine. This is how it always is. You are setting yourself up for success and doing yourself a huge favor if you can learn these skills in high school and then continue to implement them in college.

[00:32:47] Emi: Hmm. That's so, so well said.

[00:32:50] Sadie: Was there anything that you wish you could have heard or some reminder during this college application process that now you're like, if only I had heard this, if only I knew this. For people that are in the, in the thick of it right now to hear.

[00:33:06] Emi: When I was thinking about my mental health stuff as I was applying to college, I wish that somebody had told me, it's not your fault.

[00:33:14] It's not your fault that you were dealing with depression and eating disorder. That. It's, it's nobody's fault when they're going through that stuff and that I shouldn't feel like I had to take responsibility or like confess in any way, but that, okay, this can be my, my struggle that I went through, that I don't have to feel guilty about it or share anything that I don't wanna share.

[00:33:39] Sadie: Yeah. A hundred percent. So true. So important. I'm so glad we got to do this, and it's a conversation I wish I would've heard when going through this because so many teams struggle with making this decision and figuring out how to write their college application essays when they have struggled with their mental health.

[00:33:56] So I'm so glad we got to do this. If people want to read your book, continue to follow along with you, learn more about your story, where can they do that? Yeah,

[00:34:05] Emi: you can go to my website, which is emmy feld.com. Just my first name, last name, and my newsletter is a really great way to stay in touch.

[00:34:14] Sadie: Amazing. I will put that in the show notes.

[00:34:16] Thank you so, so much for joining me. I'm so glad we got to do this. Thank you so much

[00:34:20] Emi: for having me, Sadie. Of course. I'm such a fan.

[00:34:23] Sadie: Yay.

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