96. Eileen Kelly on DBT at McLean, Her Treatment Takeaways, + the Day-to-Day of Living in a Mental Hosptial

Apr 21

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Eileen Kelly is the host of Going Mental and the founder of KILLER AND A SWEET THANG (KAAST)—an online comprehensive resource for young people to discover, learn about and connect with their sexual health, pleasure, and identity. We sit down to compare our times at McLean Hospital (voluntarily going to treatment, advocating for yourself, being an adult vs. getting sent to treatment, DBT, day-to-day activities, and more), advice and takeaways post-treatment, why Eileen started blogging, stepping into her sexuality, and her advice for young adults today!

Eileen's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eileen/

Going Mental Podcast: https://pod.link/1449305737

Mentioned In The Episode…

+ McLean Hospital

+ 3East McLean Hospital

SHOP GUEST RECOMMENDATIONS: https://amzn.to/3A69GOC

Episode Sponsors

🛋This week's episode is sponsored by Teen Counseling. Teen Counseling is an online therapy program with over 14,000 licensed therapists in their network offering support with depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, and more via text, talk, and video counseling. Head to teencounseling.com/shepersisted to find a therapist today!

🍓This week's episode is brought to you by Sakara. Sakara is a nutrition company that focuses on overall wellness, starting with what you eat. Use code XOSADIE at checkout for 20% off your first order!

About She Persisted (formerly Nevertheless, She Persisted)

After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.

a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

[00:00:00] Sadie: Welcome to she persisted. I'm your host Sadie Sutton. Every Friday, I post interviews about mental health, dialectical behavioral therapy and teenage life. These episodes break down my mental health journey, teach skills to help you cope with life and showcase testimonials from individuals, including teens, just like you, whether you've struggled yourself or just want to improve your mental fitness.

[00:00:20] This podcast is your inspiration to live a life you love and keep persisting.

[00:00:25] hello. Hello and welcome back to sheep assisted. I'm so excited for today's interview with Eileen Kelly. We connected after I heard her on call her daddy because she also went to McLean hospital and she was the first podcast that I encountered that had also been to McLean and was sharing her experience and being so open and vulnerable and transparent.

[00:00:43] And she loves DBT also. And sorry. This is the most insane thing I have to have her on the show. And this interview does not disappoint. We talk all about her journey. We talk about DBT. We talk about all the work she's doing with going mental and killer and a sweet thing, which is an online, comprehensive resource, all about sexual health, pleasure and identity.

[00:01:03] So, if you want to learn more about Eileen story, what it's like to be in a mental hospital, from my perspective and hers, what to expect going into treatment and the takeaways that we had after the fact keep listening. And if you enjoy this week's episode, make sure to share with a friend or family member, leave a review on apple podcast.

[00:01:22] And if you share on social media, it makes her to attack me at, at she persisted podcast.

[00:01:27] So I wanted to give a little bit of background information before we dive in, in this episode, Eileen and I compare our experiences at McLean hospital. So McLean hospital is a mental hospital. That's located right outside of Boston. They have a huge, huge, huge variety of.

[00:01:43] Services that they offer. Some of them are virtual. They have tons of amazing resources on their website, YouTube channel, and they also have a podcast. So if you guys want to hear about McLane's work and research, but you're not necessarily needing treatment or that you're not pursuing that those resources are beyond amazing.

[00:01:59] But McClain is one of the oldest mental hospitals in the United States. It is a phenomenal program, but there's been a lot of growth. Over time it's widely known because it is the hospital that girl interrupted is based off of. They've had a ton of really famous patients there. Selena Gomez went to McClain.

[00:02:16] That's one of the reasons she's one of my treat guests. If you're watching the girl from Plainville, Michelle Carter went to McLean hospital for eating disorder treatment, a different program than I went to. She went to the Klarman center. It might be Claremont. I'm not sure. I did have a couple of friends that went there, but I don't remember how to pronounce it. So she went to that program long before all the legal proceedings and the stuff that went on that the show is about, but they do to pick that a little bit, which was super interesting to watch.

[00:02:42] But yeah, I went to three eats, which is a program at McLean hospital. It's a adolescent DBT program for teenagers. And so they help teens with a lot of different things, including depression, anxiety, PTSD, and the first signs of borderline personality disorder. So the patients that go there are a lot of the time struggling with suicidal thoughts and behavior. Self-injury disordered eating drug and alcohol misuse, impulsivity, and significant interpersonal issues. Three east McLean hospital was what saved my life. It's what changed my life. I was there for 14 weeks.

[00:03:15] I went and being suicidally, depressed, struggling in every aspect of my life, whether it was like sleep, nutrition, relationships, routine habit, my education. Anything and everything you can imagine with falling apart. I had been hospitalized four times. I had tried every single possible resource locally and things weren't working.

[00:03:33] And so my parents researched as much as they could to find a program that could help me with my struggles with depression and anxiety. And they found three east and I couldn't be more grateful that they did and that the three east team was willing to help me and take me on as a patient, because again, it changed and saved my life.

[00:03:51] So that is the context there. When we talk about McLean, when we say three east Eileen did not go to three east, but she went to the adult equivalent program. So we kind of compare and contrast what that's like. But yeah, it was really interesting to connect with someone that had also gone to intensive treatment at a similar location. Compare our experiences, talk about what worked and how it's helped years from them. She's two years out from discharge, and I think I'm four or five years at this point. I'm so crazy how time flies, but if you're interested in learning more about three east and McLean, there'll be links in the show notes. Again, amazing resource for teens, struggling with depression and anxiety that need a higher level of care. The online resources are unparalleled, and I don't think I mentioned this, but McLane is a Harvard medical school affiliated hospital. So all of their work is done with, and through Harvard. A lot of their researchers, doctors, professors are also working at Harvard. And so you are getting the best of the best treatment the newest best, most evidence-based research. Everything is done with compassion and care and experience beyond all else. So can't speak highly of this enough, super interesting and fun conversation. And I hope you enjoy lessening.

[00:05:03] Thank you so much for joining me today on she persisted. I am so, so, so excited to have you on.

[00:05:09] Eileen: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to do this.

[00:05:12] Sadie: Yeah. So I found you through call her daddy and listening to your experience about McLean and then your, your entire journey. And then I started listening to your podcast and it was the most crazy thing because I never found anyone in the podcasting world that had been to McLean.

[00:05:28] And on, was talking about their journey and it was so interesting to see the parallels and the differences. So I'm really excited to dive into this and hear about your experience and your journey, because I think there's just so much insightful and interesting information on that's helpful to people.

[00:05:44] So starting off, what was your. like starting with advocating to go, which obviously is a huge Hootsuite stop. And then all the way through to the end to transitioning back to normal life.

[00:05:56] Eileen: Yeah. So, oh my gosh. I discharged almost two years ago. Like. To the date, probably like one month. And I decided to go just because I was having a really difficult time managing my stress and just life and work.

[00:06:15] I actually had to take time off of work. I just could not manage it. And I knew I needed a higher level of care. So I was seeing a therapist multiple times a week. I actually entered into an outpatient program in New York first. And I was just like, holy shit. I need, I need something more. I need to be like living in a program.

[00:06:37] I need to not have my phone. So. I, yeah, I really had to advocate for myself and kind of ask the clinicians at this program. I did a New York saying like, where should I go? So that gave me a few different options in the country. And I just thought, if I'm going to go away, I might as well, and I can afford it.

[00:06:56] I might as well. Do the best program I can. Yeah. I'm like, I don't want to have asset, you know? Yeah. So there, there was a program that I could have done that was like 30 days and it's like an hour outside of New York and I'm like, listen, I don't want to go and do that. And then God forbid, I feel like it doesn't work.

[00:07:16] It didn't help me. Like I might as well just like go do the real things. So I stepped away. It was a minimum 60 days at McClain. I ended up staying

[00:07:25] Sadie: five months. Yeah, no, I, I think it's, it's so interesting to hear. Your perspective there, because when I went to McLean, I don't want to say I was like backed into a corner, but it was definitely a decision that like my parents made and it was like, I couldn't go back to my other therapist.

[00:07:42] I kept not necessarily seeing improvements, whether it was an outpatient or, or in. The little stays and they're like, this is the next option. And I really didn't want to want to go. I really wanted to stay home, even though I was absolutely miserable that felt more comfortable than picking everything up and, and moving across the country.

[00:08:00] I would say it sounds like we had pretty similar experiences of it being profoundly helpful to learn these skills and, and take time away from home and really could just reset in terms of like how I was coping and interacting with my relationships and how I viewed myself. And again, different ways of getting to that point, but still can be extremely helpful and beneficial.

[00:08:21] So I, I kind of want to talk about what it was like to enter in voluntarily, go into treatment because obviously five months is a really long time. There's probably were points where you were. I regret this. This is crazy. Because treatment is really hard. Doing work on yourself is never easy.

[00:08:37] Do you think it helped that you were the one that made the decision that you were like, okay, I've made this decision. I made this commitment or were, were you like this? The socks? I just want to change my mind at this point.

[00:08:50] Eileen: I mean, I definitely had moments there where I was like, holy shit, what am I doing?

[00:08:55] Why did I sign my life away? I miss my friends. I miss my home. I had been living alone for a years. I had a successful career. So there were things about my life that I definitely missed saying that. Listen, if someone had been looking out for me when I was younger and had tea and I had known what three east was or gone away at a younger age, I think that would have saved me years and years of like torment in my early twenties, in my teen years that I had to go through.

[00:09:29] Without a diagnosis without knowing what I was struggling with. And I could have say, I think it could have saved me a lot of pain, but you know, that's just not how my life unfolded. So I'm not gonna, I'm gonna be grateful for the experiences that I had. And I think it shaped me into who I am. But there was a difference, I will say, because there are people in my program who yeah.

[00:09:52] Were there because family members were kind of forcing them or, you know, they have a husband who's saying, I want a divorce. If you don't do this program and work on your mental health. So there were a lot of people who were not there on their own volition. And I would say the one thing. That I saw in a difference, having gone there kind of on my own and really wanting to be there.

[00:10:16] I feel like I put my best foot forward, maybe quicker than other people, because I'm not being forced to be there. And I'm not upset. Like I could imagine if, if my parents sent me there, I would be like, what the fuck? At least for the first couple of weeks. Yeah. Perhaps, yeah. Be upset or angry or bitter that I'm there.

[00:10:38] And. Be using all of the tools and time to work on myself. If that makes sense. Like there were people in my program who I'm like, holy shit, you have this wonderful opportunity to be at the best program in the country. It's like very hard to get into. It's very expensive. Why aren't you using every month?

[00:10:57] Yeah, and like reaping the benefits and, you know, it's more nuanced than that. There are people who, who just don't want to be there. And I get that and it's a difficult situation, but I think because I came on my own volition from day one, I was like, I'm I got this, I'm ready to work on myself. I'm going to do whatever it takes to get better.

[00:11:17] Whereas if maybe I had been in a different situation, kind of forced to go there, I don't know if that would have been my real.

[00:11:23] Sadie: Yeah, no, I think that's interesting. Even though I initially it was like, not my decision. I remember I got there and during my intake meeting, they were like, do you want to be here?

[00:11:33] I was like, no brainer. I do not like 30 seconds before that I'd kicked my parents out of the room. I was like, I don't want them in this meeting. They just flown across the country and dropped everything to get me all this help. And I was like, I don't want to be here. I've done DBT before this isn't going to work.

[00:11:48] Like, I'm just, I meant to be depressed. I meant to struggle. Nothing is going to change. And they did a really great job of making it very clear that if I had that attitude going in, it wasn't going to work. That was just the fact of the matter. And they said there's a lot of programs where you can go to treatment and not be a willing participant, especially as an adolescent.

[00:12:10] And that was something that was so unique about McLean is that they did. Have an active role. They wanted you to be there. They wanted you to be invested. And so they were like, can you find the wisdom, pulling out the wise mind of being here and, and trust us to help you. And if you can't do that, like this, isn't going to work, it's going to be a waste of your time.

[00:12:29] It's going to be always to be your parents time of our time. And so I was able for the first time to actually trust people and to think, okay, maybe this will work. I'm going to take a chance. And then B be a willing participant, which I look back on and pinpoint as the game-changer of what made that stay work versus like for hospitalizations and outpatient and therapy.

[00:12:49] So I think that as an adolescent and an adult, having that moment where you are choosing to commit to yourself and you want to get better for you is huge and having long lasting results.

[00:13:01] Eileen: Absolutely. I completely agree with you. I think that's a great point. I also think I don't know. I almost think of it in a way of like someone who's struggling with substance you know what they like in AA, they say, if someone doesn't want to help themselves, then it's not going to work.

[00:13:18] And it's kind of the same thing with mental health. Obviously there's some disorders that like, Yeah, it's a little bit harder to treat, or maybe you need medication. Like if someone has severe paranoia, hallucinations, like more schizophrenia disorders, but in terms of like personality disorder and mood disorders, I feel like, yeah, you have to want to change.

[00:13:40] You have to want to. Improve your life to have a life worth living.

[00:13:45] Sadie: Yeah, no, I completely agree.

[00:13:47] So fitting for this week's episode, all about therapy and mental health treatment. Our sponsor today is teen counseling. Teen counseling is better helps online therapy program. They have over 14,000 licensed therapists in their network and offer support on things like depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, in so much more.

[00:14:05] Teen counseling offers, talk, text and video counseling all from your homes to, depending on what level of support you're looking for.

[00:14:11] This is a great option and you can also dip your toe into therapy without having to like fully commit, go into an intake appointment and an office with therapists you never met before the sake. Great way to try it. So, what you're going to do is you're going to head to teen counseling.com, Sashi persistent.

[00:14:27] You are going to fill out a survey talking about what you're hoping to work on in therapy. So maybe that is improving relationships working through anxiety that you're experiencing, decreasing stress, building, healthier habits, whatever it is, you are going to fill it out in this survey so they can match with a therapist that meets your needs.

[00:14:43] You are then going to put in an email and a parent or guardian email. If you were under 18. This is so that your parent or guardian can give consent to treatment and provide payment. None of your personal information shared in the survey is disclosed with your parent or guardian.

[00:14:57] Your privacy is completely protected, tested it and sent it to myself. All it says is Sadie or whatever your name is, is hoping to work with a therapist from teen counseling. Please click here to learn more and provide consent. So, if you are looking to start your therapy journey or start meeting with a new therapist, you are going to go to teen counseling.com/

[00:15:16] Again, that is teen counseling.com/ to get started today.

[00:15:22] So I'd love to hear the day-to-day. I think this is one of the things that people have the most questions about, because unless you've like been in treatment, you're like no idea what happens. They're like, do you sit in a room all day?

[00:15:34] So it'd be so interesting to kind of compare and contrast what it's like as an adolescent versus an adult. So walk me through what your five months were like with like therapy and groups and education and activities and all that. Yeah,

[00:15:46] Eileen: so you're on a pretty tight schedule. So in the mornings, you know, you have breakfast, you go straight to class Monday through Friday, you're doing yeah.

[00:15:56] During the morning and early afternoon, it's either group therapy, different types of group therapy or psycho-education. So that's like where you're learning for listeners, you're learning about different personality disorders. What is depression? How does it show up in the brain? So then, yeah, basically we would have a study hall in the afternoon because we would have a lot of DBT homework. So dialectical behavioral therapy for people who are listening, which is like a type of.

[00:16:22] I don't know, behavioral therapy. So instead of like CBT or cognitive therapy is all about like changing your thought patterns. DBT is more about like behavioral change as well as like accepting kind of your current circumstances. And so, yeah, I would have a lot of homework. And then in the afternoons you would see your primary therapist twice a week.

[00:16:45] We would see a psychiatrist once a week. If for people who are adjusting medications, and then we would also do family therapy once a week, which was mandatory for the program

[00:16:57] Sadie: and my, for the adult program too. I think that's really.

[00:17:02] Eileen: Yeah. I honestly felt like that was one of the best parts of the program or one of the parts that I thought saw the most change, especially coming from a family where like mental health is not really recognized or doesn't get a lot of attention.

[00:17:17] And lastly, we would meet with like a Harvard. PhD research student as part of their PhD program. And I feel like people used that session differently. I myself did exposure therapy during that hour, once a week. So a lot of different. A ton of, I mean, yeah, you're doing therapy pretty much every day, all day for five months.

[00:17:48] So, and then after the sessions, we would usually have like a break or free time. We could like watch TV, play games. There's you could go chill in your room, read a book, whatever you wanted to do. And then we would all come together for dinner. After dinner, it was like homework time. And maybe we would all watch a movie together kind of just like wind down for the evening.

[00:18:13] And during dinner, I don't know if you guys did this too, but we would kind of share how your day one after dinner, like we would have like a 30 minute period where everyone kind of reconnects and we talk about. Yeah. Was your day really hard? How are you feeling before we're going to bed and it's kind of this way to like reconnect with the community.

[00:18:34] So you honestly like, you know how everyone's sessions for the day and that's really how these programs are built. Is. It's so community oriented and just like everyone knows everyone's business. It's

[00:18:50] Sadie: true. And it's, it's kind of, I think that there's a purpose there because you're learning to build healthy relationships and support people without being codependent and, and learn how people are like processing what they're going through.

[00:19:04] I would say there's definitely a lot of parallels between the adult and the teen program. One thing that I loved that we did. In the morning, we would do like a check-in and we would say like what skills we're using for the day and like what we're nervous about and like what we were excited about which I think is something that I haven't done a ton since I left, but it was very helpful in being very intentional about what you wanted to do on a day-to-day basis.

[00:19:28] And then the other thing that we did, I know you were there partially during COVID, so I'm sure it was a little bit different, but we did outings on the weekends. We'd like, go get ice cream, we'd go get dinner. We would go to a movie. And that in itself was really helpful because. We're an as isolated, but it was also like a test to use your skills and managing anxiety and navigate an environment that you would at home, which is another thing that I think is pretty unique to McClain because there's so many programs or it's like, you're just inside and you don't ever go outside.

[00:19:59] And I don't think that's as realistic for what real life is like. And it makes that transition very, very hard. Would you say that the program that you went to was primarily DBT or they did DBT in addition to other skills education, it's

[00:20:14] a

[00:20:14] Eileen: DBT program. So it's for people who have personality disorders, it's like the most common reason that people go to that program.

[00:20:21] So, yeah, it's DBT. And we actually also did do outings on the weekends and we were allowed to go to either whole foods, target or trader Joe's every weekend on like Saturday night. And we, oh, oh, you can also go to the gym every single day.

[00:20:39] Sadie: And it was so funny because during the winter, well, they would give the option.

[00:20:43] You could go to the gym or you could do a walk and during the winter it would be snowing. And so we would just like roam the tunnels, like this giant group of people wearing their pajamas and robes out of the unit for the day, trying to get their exercise. And it was just the most comical thing ever.

[00:20:59] Eileen: Yeah, so, and that, I agree. That was a really nice part. We also were allowed to go to the grocery store twice a week. That's awesome. And you have, you have chaperones, but it was nice. It gave you some autonomy also like over what you're eating. Like I could buy a steak and cook myself a steak dinner one night if I don't want to eat the catering.

[00:21:18] So that was really great. And I don't know if you guys did this, but we actually had to cook

[00:21:24] Sadie: dinner. Okay. We did not have a kitchen at the time that I was there, but I think they've changed that sense. But you could do like freezer items and you could use like the microwave and stuff, but we weren't like cooking, cooking as much, I would say.

[00:21:36] So

[00:21:36] Eileen: part of the program is that twice a week, the residents cook and they pair you, you just get, they pair you in the beginning of the week and you have to cook so it was kind of like a team building exercise where you have to cook dinner and you have to like create a menu. And it's funny because some people are like moms who are like amazing cooks, you know, like have been cooking for a family for like 10 years. Some people have like never cooked a meal in their life.

[00:22:03] So it was configured. Yeah. So it was like interesting. You have to like come up with, you have to have a vegetable. I remember you have to have a carb and a protein and you have to like, make sure, I don't know. It was, it was definitely an exercise and like compromise and having to work with a team member.

[00:22:21] And then you have to make sure, like, no one has any allergies and it was, it was fun. So while people are doing like study hall and the afternoon, when. Chilling for a bit before dinner is when two people are

[00:22:33] Sadie: cooking. I love that. Another thing that I think is worth mentioning is on Mondays, we had like a parent group.

[00:22:39] So all of the parents would do DBT education and learn the same skills that we were learning, which was super cool.

[00:22:45] Eileen: Did parents have to be in town or could they like zoom in or call in

[00:22:50] Sadie: for? We did both. So my parents kind of like alternated weekends, so we would do like a family visit and we would. Practice like spending time together and doing activities and having conversations.

[00:23:00] And then on Monday they would go to the parent group. And then right after we would do family therapy, but some parents would call in and learn the skills, but it was so cool because just while I was learning, like dear man to advocate for my needs, they were learning dear man and validation to support me as well.

[00:23:15] And so that was one of my favorite parts and it's something my parents still use to this day. And they love bringing a validation and they're always talking about the skills. And I think it's something that really was very beneficial all around and is something that, again, haven't seen it a lot of programs.

[00:23:31] And when talking to friends, it's not something that's super common. So that was one of my favorite parts as well. For people who are either considering treatment and are in that position that you are where you're like, I think more help might be helpful, but I'm not really sure.

[00:23:43] Or they know they're going to be starting treatment soon. Do you have any advice?

[00:23:47] Eileen: Yeah. I mean, do your research. It it's difficult to give advice because like I, for example, was on my wit's end. Like I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping. Like I was really honestly, very sick. So it was a lot to ask of myself to do intakes, to do the research.

[00:24:05] So sometimes that's like not a viable option. So I would say, ask for help if you can, you know, even if you have a therapist or a family member or a friend say, Hey, I really need help. Like, can you. Can you help me look into options? Yeah. Don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. Yeah, but I would say, yeah.

[00:24:26] Do your research if you can. And.

[00:24:30] I just think there's a lot of honestly, like not to scare anyone who's listening, but I think there's a lot of like phony programs in

[00:24:36] Sadie: this country. Yeah, no, I've talked about it a lot on the podcast, especially for teens like the troubled teen industry is.

[00:24:43] Eileen: You don't want to go there. And so, like, that's scary.

[00:24:47] So I would say like, look into, make sure it's like connected to a reputable hospital or a reputable university and,

[00:24:54] Sadie: and using evidence-based practices, they can show you actual studies supporting what they're doing, all of that kind of stuff.

[00:25:03] Eileen: Yeah. Even like maybe if they could connect you with a patient who's been there before.

[00:25:07] I feel like a lot of like reputable programs can do that.

[00:25:11] Sadie: Look them up online. People will post if they had a bad experience, so you can find certain

[00:25:17] Eileen: views. But yeah, just doing a little research and especially because a lot of these places do have a minimum stay. So like, if you hate it, you can't just like go in and walk away.

[00:25:30] Sadie: So being aware of that, I totally agree.

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[00:26:36] Any takeaways that you've had after treatment, looking back, reflecting that you think are helpful for people to know?

[00:26:44] Oh gosh,

[00:26:44] Eileen: my DBT skill book. I tell all my Instagram followers I'm beloved. I'm like buy this book on like Amazon or online somewhere because even just like sitting back in the evenings, if I'm having a problem with a friend or I'm feeling. Unregulated I can look and just remind myself of these skills and.

[00:27:06] It saddens me that I wasn't taught any of this and like my school, my high school, my grade school, you know, if you're feeling really sad, what do you do? And also just even to acknowledge and know what these emotions are, know how to define them, to really know how you're feeling like that's also something I was just so uneducated, like.

[00:27:31] Yeah, emotionally ignorant or emotionally uneducated. Like I had no idea what, like how to describe being angry or the difference between, you know, shame and feeling guilty. And I think that's a really important step in just understanding who you are.

[00:27:51] Sadie: Yeah something. And I remember right after treatment, which I'm wondering if you experienced as well as leaving the DBT bubble, I would get so annoyed that people didn't know DBT skills or they weren't as skillful.

[00:28:02] Or I was like, why aren't you using a dear man? Like guys, why is mine? Like what is happening? And I thought it was just funny going from an environment where every single clinician and staff member and patient was using these skills and then going to in the normal world, Couldn't be further from the truth.

[00:28:19] Was that something that you realized right after you

[00:28:21] Eileen: left? Yeah, I mean, I had a unique experience because I left into the height of COVID. So I went home and like the whole world was on pause and everyone was on lockdown. And I moved back in with my dad for a couple months and I feel like we didn't even really leave the house.

[00:28:39] I'm like, no one I know was leaving the house. So. It wasn't like I was thrown back and to, you know, the normal like world that I was used to, like everything was at a completely different pace, but I've definitely had moments or even just seeing a friend going through a really rough breakup. And I'm like, if only let me do like these skills.

[00:29:03] Sadie: So after you left you started a podcast to talk about your journey and you interview a bunch of individuals about their experiences with mental health. Are there common threads that you've heard from talking to so many different people from so many different backgrounds about mental health challenges?

[00:29:18] In today's world?

[00:29:20] Eileen: Yeah, definitely. I mean, honestly, if there's one thing it's shown me. Really the reason why I wanted to start the show in the first place is that everyone, no matter who they are, no matter their background, where they're from career family, socioeconomic standing deals with some form of anxiety, mental health, depression, even if maybe they themselves don't.

[00:29:49] They know someone who does, this is such a universal. Feeling and yet it's so stigmatized and not talked about. And, and so that's really, it, it honestly made me feel a lot more normal, selfishly, like talking to other people, I'm like, okay. Yeah. I spent months in technically a mental

[00:30:08] Sadie: hospital

[00:30:09] Eileen: But, you know, maybe like the most successful author that I'm interviewing today has also has felt kind of similar feelings to me.

[00:30:17] Sadie: Yeah. Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. What have been some of your favorite moments on hosting the podcast and getting to interview so many people?

[00:30:25] Eileen: I think hearing from listeners and seeing like, oh, I've had people listen and say, Hey, I listened to this episode.

[00:30:31] And I, I recently I got diagnosed with OCD. Like I finally know what's been happening with me and now I can get the right treatment. That to me is like, even if I can just help one person, it makes it all worth it. But also speaking to more contentious guests has been. Really eyeopening. And maybe even people I've gone in with my own judgements, maybe not in the actual interview, but.

[00:31:02] And she's with me and my friends. I'm like, oh gosh, I'm nervous for this one. And I don't know what this person's vibe is going to be. And then I talk to them and I'm like, holy shit. Even if it's someone that I'm like, I really don't agree with their political standing. They're still just human at the end of the day.

[00:31:20] And like, we all struggle and we're all trying to do the best we can. And so it's been a really humanizing humbling experience.

[00:31:31] Sadie: I love that. Switching gears a bit to sex education you bet a lot of your platform on vulnerability and being transparent with teens and young adults about taboo topics, which as I'm sure you'll mention with something that wasn't really happening when you started blogging about these things what inspired you to start sharing your experience and talking to teens?

[00:31:50] Eileen: Yeah, so I started my career. Like yeah. All around sex education and it comes from a very vulnerable, personal place. So I grew up Catholic and I grew up with a single dad and in a house full of boys and just really firsthand did not get any sex education. But beyond that, like really talk about my body puberty, like body image, even mental health, like there were just gaping holes in like, what was.

[00:32:21] Around me in the bubble that I grew up in, and that was really difficult. So. Fast forward to kind of the birth of the internet. And like right after my space was created, I, I was like one of the first people on tumbler, kind of that's what I started to blog on. And I would talk about having my first high school boyfriend and losing my virginity and it just kind of snowballed.

[00:32:47] And I was like, holy crap. I'm meeting all of these people who are in a similar boat that no one's talked to them about this. Yeah. So that's where it was just this really organic process of just sharing my life online. And then I said, Hey, you know, I could, I could bring. Do something with this, or this could be my job.

[00:33:06] So I created my own website and they had a bunch of people who wrote for it and it became a whole thing. And I did a program in San Francisco where I got an associates degree just in sex ed and I, I really worked in that field for a while until my mental health started to unravel. And that's when I went to.

[00:33:30] Sadie: I'm speaking to growing up and, and stepping into your sexuality more than you did when you were younger and kind of in like the Catholic being at home bubble what was that experience like? Tell me what that was like.

[00:33:43] Eileen: Oh, gosh, I feel like my experience was like either learning stuff from Google and like Reddit and just forums on the internet.

[00:33:53] And this is kind of before the internet was what it's like today. So there just wasn't as much information and definitely not as much accurate information. So I'm either learning from like friends who are my exact same age, who are also going through similar experiences at the same time, or I'm looking it up on the internet.

[00:34:13] So I just had to really do my due diligence. And, but yeah, there was a lot of mistakes along the way. I was even thinking about this a couple of days ago. I'm like, nobody even taught me like how to shave my legs. Like, I mean, that's just growing up without a mom in my house. I just, like, there were certain things that just like, weren't really talked about.

[00:34:35] I'm even trying to remember, like getting my period for the first time. I think I had, we'd had like a very basic where the girls and guys were separated and middle school. Where they talked about your period, but like I had no idea. I remember thinking like, oh my gosh, is it going to hurt? And there was, yeah, just no one really gave me any information.

[00:34:56] So I'm like, I'm going to make sure my kids or friends, like have a plethora of information even before they go through puberty. Because. Yeah, I think I felt very vulnerable in my own body because I just had no idea what was happening.

[00:35:14] Sadie: What was that like feeling the vulnerability internally and then also sharing it with other people.

[00:35:18] Was that scarier, did it just feel natural to kind of bring people along with that journey? What was that like? Yeah, I

[00:35:25] Eileen: think it felt natural. I think it also was how I got my questions answered. They kind of went, went two and two together. So. And I was meeting other people who are young in a similar boat.

[00:35:37] And then as I learned things, like, as I learned how to put his hand pawn in, I would then teach my friends and I would teach people on the internet. So yeah, like I said, it was, it was organic.

[00:35:47] Sadie: Yeah. I'm are there a couple of pieces of advice for teens that you wish you would've known as a teenager or a young adult?

[00:35:56] Eileen: Yeah. I wish someone would have practice. Or talk to me about consent and saying no, and that like any, not even sexual, but just like in the work environment and school environment that you have agency and just to like, become comfortable with having boundaries. Honestly, if someone just had talked to me about boundaries,

[00:36:20] Sadie: And I think that's huge.

[00:36:21] And I think it's something we're starting to talk about more in schools and it's something you were there still a lot of room for improvement. I'd love to get your thoughts on tech talk because I think that's one of the most central forms of information that teenagers are leaning into. Do you find it to be helpful?

[00:36:37] Are you like, this is great. People are sharing so much. You're like, there's just so much being thrown at people. It's overwhelming. What's your perspective?

[00:36:44] Eileen: Yeah. I mean, I think it's definitely easier and easier to meet people who are going through similar things. And I think that's awesome. I do think there's a lot of misinformation on Tik TOK.

[00:36:54] So just be wary. Like I see a lot of people like throwing around diagnoses, like, oh, are you struggling with this? And then they'll list off stuff and it's like, not therapists or. I don't know to be giving out diagnosis makes me a little like wary. But overall I think it's a great tool. And if you yourself can kind of limit and knock it absorbed where you're spending like 12 hours a day on it.

[00:37:21] And then I think.

[00:37:23] Sadie: I completely agree. You are about to come out with season two of your podcast, where can people follow along and connect with you and make sure they are subscribed for when that drops. So

[00:37:33] Eileen: it's called going mental with Eileen Kelly, and you can find it on apple and Spotify really anywhere you find a podcast.

[00:37:41] And yeah, you can also find it on my YouTube, which is just going mental podcast. Where are we? It's kind of full of videos for this upcoming season, which I'm really excited about. And yeah, we have some very exciting guests that are booked and I, I start recording

[00:37:57] Sadie: next week, actually. That's amazing.

[00:38:00] Congratulations. And I can't wait to listen.

[00:38:03] Eileen: Thank you so much for having me on and. Yeah, I'm excited to listen to this

[00:38:08] Sadie: To recap this week's episode, Eileen and I sat down and talked all about our different experiences at McLean hospital as an adolescent versus an adult, what it was like to navigate intensive treatment of learning DBT skills, what the day-to-day looked like being in a mental hospital, advocating for yourself.

[00:38:26] Our takeaways post-treatment and also Eileen's career in sex education and blocking. Before that, we also touched on her podcast going mental, where she sits down with some amazing individuals to talk about their mental health journeys

[00:38:38] And our takeaways from those interviews. So if you enjoyed this week's episode, make sure to leave a review on apple podcasts and Spotify. I'm doing a huge giveaway. When we hit a hundred reviews on apple podcasts at the time of this recording, we were at 94 reviews.

[00:38:52] So we're super close. And I can't wait to share that with you guys to make sure, you know, when the giveaway goes live, make sure to follow along on. And actually persisted podcast. And if you enjoyed this week's episode, please, please share with a friend or family member.

[00:39:05] And if you share on social media, tag me at actually persisted podcasts and I'll make sure to repost and give you a little shout out. So with that, thank you for listening and I'll see you next week.

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