97. truth x She Persisted: A Roundtable Discussion on Vaping, Teen Nicotine Use, and Quitting Substances as a Young Adult

Apr 26

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Truth Initiative is America's largest nonprofit public health organization dedicated to a future where tobacco and nicotine addiction are things of the past. In this roundtable with Truth Initiative, we discuss the prevalence of teen nicotine use, what happens when adolescents use nicotine (biologically, mentally, socially, etc), smoking cigarettes vs. vaping, the average age of onset, the mental health implications of vaping, This is Quitting as a resource (what it is, why it works, what to expect, etc), other resources that can be helpful on your quitting journey, and Megan + Jake's advice for teens currently trying to quit.

About Jake: Jake Warn is a 21-year-old college student at Thomas College from Winslow, Maine. He is passionate about telling his story about the effects of vaping nicotine and the impact that it had on his mental health. Jake was also recently awarded the truth IMPACT Scholarship honoring the actions he has taken to address youth tobacco, e-cigarette, and nicotine use in his community, and to support youth mental health.

Jake’s journey with vaping nicotine started in high school, where he thrived as an athlete, class Vice President, and a member of the National Honor Society. Like any other high school student, Jake wanted to fit in, and using vape products was the way to do just that. Jake quit using e-cigarettes and is now a volunteer and advocate supporting actions to protect young people from the risks of nicotine addiction.

About Megan: As the managing director of products for the Innovations center at Truth Initiative, Megan Jacobs brings an empathic, user-centered approach to product design that is key to the successful quit-smoking and vaping programs used by hundreds of thousands of people looking to break free from addiction. Jacobs led the modernization of the now 11-year-old BecomeAnEX® platform and the EX® Program enterprise product. Most recently, Jacobs designed the quit-vaping program This is Quitting (TIQ) for teens and young adults. She works across departments to integrate TIQ into the truth® campaign.

Mentioned In The Episode…

+ Ep. 80 Solo Ep.

+ Ep. 75 Dr. Faber

+ Teens and young adults can join This is Quitting for free by texting DITCHVAPE to 88709

+ Breathwrk (This is Quitting users get 6 months free!!)

+ Crisis Text Line

+ Become an Ex

+ Breath of Stress Air

+ Moment of Action 2022

SHOP GUEST RECOMMENDATIONS: https://amzn.to/3A69GOC

Episode Sponsors

🛋This week's episode is sponsored by Teen Counseling. Teen Counseling is an online therapy program with over 14,000 licensed therapists in their network offering support with depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, and more via text, talk, and video counseling. Head to teencounseling.com/shepersisted to find a therapist today!

About She Persisted (formerly Nevertheless, She Persisted)

After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.

[00:00:00] Sadie: Welcome to she persisted. I'm your host Sadie Sutton. Every Friday, I post interviews about mental health, dialectical behavioral therapy and teenage life. These episodes break down my mental health journey, teach skills to help you cope with life and showcase testimonials from individuals, including teens, just like you, whether you've struggled yourself or just want to improve your mental fitness.

[00:00:20] This podcast is your inspiration to live a life you love and keep persisting.

[00:00:25] Hello. Hello and welcome to she persisted. If you're new here. Welcome. My name is Sadie. I am a 19 year old freshmen, almost a sophomore. We finish up classes on Wednesday, which is crazy at the university of Pennsylvania, studying psychology. I'm super passionate about mental health because of my mental health journey that I went through.

[00:00:42] And I did an whole extensive episode about that. If you want to listen, it's episode 88, you can also listen to episode one, but 80 is the most recent updated version I've done. I talk about depression, anxiety, intensive treatment DBT, which is dialectical, behavioral therapy, coping skills that were helpful for me in so much. But today we have two amazing guests on the podcast as part of a partnership with truth initiative. If you haven't heard of truth, they're America's largest non-profit public health organization dedicated to a future where tobacco and nicotine addiction are things of the past.

[00:01:14] Vaping and teen nicotine addiction is a huge you choose problem. It's something that I became even more aware of once I got to college. And so when they reached out asking to do this episode, I absolutely was so down because it is something that is so relevant to so many teenagers and can be very closely linked to mental health and can make things worse.

[00:01:33] If you're already struggling or prone to struggling with mental health challenges. So our guests today are Megan and Jake Macon is the director of product for innovation center. At truth initiative. She has a ton of experience on the backend creating truths campaigns.

[00:01:48] So this is quitting, their newest campaign, which is breath of stressed air. You've probably seen them on tech doc, Instagram, et cetera. But Megan has such an interesting perspective because she brings the science, the data that they're working with and what they found to work for teens to help them quit nicotine use.

[00:02:05] And Jake is a 21 year old college student. You will hear more of his story in this episode, but he himself struggled with addiction and he talks about that. What worked, what didn't, what he wished she would have known. So we really were able to create a very interesting round table with the firsthand subjective experience, any objective professional perspective. So I really hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you want to hear more about substance use in teens, I did an episode with Dr. Jay Faber from amen clinics. And he talks about teenage substance use. So more about the brain impacts long-term effects and quitting. And it's not just nicotine based. So if you're interested in that, I will link that in today's show notes.

[00:02:42] That's episode number 75.

[00:02:44] So with that, let's dive into the episode.

[00:02:48] Thank you guys so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to have you on She Persisted. I'd love to start by getting both of your backgrounds and how you started working in the teen nicotine prevention industry. So, Megan, I would love to hear about how you came to work with truth.

[00:03:04] Megan: Sure. I've been working at truths for the past 11 years of. I came to truth originally with a background in helping teens and young adults mostly make help behavior changes in other areas. So I've done some work in alcohol and other drug risk production, as well as all that, a lot of sexual health, wellness initiatives and helping empower young people to live their best lives sexually and with sexual health in mind.

[00:03:30] So I have a background in. Health behavior change and also health communication and marketing. I did my masters in health communication and marketing at George Washington university. And I worked a lot in the social marketing and health marketing space while I was in undergrad at university of Michigan in Ann

[00:03:50] Sadie: Arbor as well.

[00:03:51] Awesome. Jake, I'd love to hear your story as well and how you became an advocate for teens that are struggling with nicotine.

[00:03:57] Jake: Sure. Yeah, my story kind of started a little differently. I was actually, you know, an ex attic user in high school. And so my story kind of starts back there in high school.

[00:04:06] I I started working. On my path out of or, you know, working on getting up off of nicotine. My mom encouraged me to start working with the state to encourage different policies with the cancer action network. And so we just started pushing local legislation around flavored tobacco and. We actually increased the age as well from 18 to 21 in may.

[00:04:29] And so I had always kind of had good relationships with the cancer action network after those dealings. And so actually I found out about the truth initiative through a newsletter to be more involved. And so yeah, reached out again and then it kind of just led from there. , that's kinda how I got started.

[00:04:46] Sadie: That's awesome. Obviously teen nicotine use is a huge, huge, huge issue. It's extremely prevalent. We see it in the news all the time, being at college and in high school at something you see tons of people doing. I would love to hear the numbers there and, and the prevalence that you guys are seeing with teen nicotine use Megan, you might be the person to answer this.

[00:05:06] Megan: Sure. Well, Certainly when it comes to nicotine use. Any young people using nicotine is is a huge concern because nicotine is so damaging to young brains that are still developing. Young people's brains are still developing up until age 25. And so we know from decades of research that nicotine really fundamentally changes the way the brain.

[00:05:33] And the younger young people start using nicotine. The harder it is to quit and the more likely they are to become addicted, not only to nicotine but also potentially to other substances as well. And so nicotine use really primes the brain for that addictive pathway. And that's a concern process.

[00:05:52] Well, plus we know from talking to so many young people. They they're experiencing negative effects from using nicotine, whether it's from traditional cigarettes or e-cigarettes, and they want to get off that pathway as well. And so obviously we're as an organization really committed to helping young people make those changes in their own lives.

[00:06:14] Right now, there are over 2 million teens. Sorry, teens specifically who are using e-cigarettes and even more when it comes to young adults, 18 to 24 as well. But your question specifically, there's some new data that came out just just this week, actually showing that still over 2 million teenagers are.

[00:06:36] Are vaping. And so we've got a lot of work still left to

[00:06:40] Sadie: do. Yeah. I'd love to dive into the biology and the neuroscience of what happens when teens are using nicotine and how that can impact their, their mental processing and, and functioning in general. What happens when teens start using nicotine at such a young age?

[00:06:59] Megan: Yeah. So the biology of, of nicotine is, is pretty well understood at this point. So we know that when a person starts using nicotine the first time, or maybe the first few times it feels good, right? It activates receptors in your brain that release dopamine. Dopamine is a, is a feel good chemical, you know, that gets released in your brain.

[00:07:23] And we get dopamine from lots of different things. You can get dopamine release from exercise and sunshine and good food and friendship and lots of different things. We'll release dopamine, but nicotine is one of the things that almost like floods your brain with dopamine. And it's, it's a little bit like too much of a good thing.

[00:07:43] So it activates these receptors and then. Very quickly that dopamine wears off because nicotine is not a drug that keeps feeling good for a long time. It actually very quickly tapers off. And what happens is that when the, when that nicotine tapers off and it goes away, Those receptors are left feeling hungry for more nicotine to, to make them feel good again.

[00:08:12] And that feeling that sensation often manifests as stress irritability, maybe strong cravings. Sometimes it can inspire other negative feelings like restlessness or anger even, or sadness. And. When that happens, that's basically a withdrawal cycle happening so that you use the nicotine. You felt good.

[00:08:39] It wears off quickly. Now you feel bad and your brain is saying the only way to make me feel good, again is more nicotine. And so now you're caught in this. Of using nicotine, it wearing off. Now you feel low and your brain is saying nicotine will make you feel good again. And it can be very hard to sort of get out of that loop.

[00:09:06] You know, that is essentially how that withdrawal cycle processes. And so what we see with People who use nicotine, is that a lot of people, especially young people will say that they vape because they feel stressed or as a stress, you know, they're using nicotine as a stress reliever. And in reality, that relief that you feel it's very temporary and it's not actually relieving.

[00:09:38] That external source of stress. It's not making that stressor go away. You know, whether it's homework or finals or a fight you're having with your friend, those external situations are still going to be there. Nicotine hasn't solved that. And now on top of it, it's added this new source of stress for your body and your brain in this withdrawal cycle.

[00:10:00] So it's adding stress. You know, even if there's a very temporary feeling of relief it really is not going to be something that's long lasting and it be. Over time, you know, get worse and worse. And of course, as I mentioned the younger people start using nicotine. The more likely they are to become addicted and the harder it is often for them to quit.

[00:10:20] Sadie: Yeah. I feel like one of the most common things people say is, well, it's not cigarettes. Like it's, it's vaping. It's not quote unquote as bad. What is the information there? Like the comparison. I know another. Part of vaping and e-cigarettes is, it's not totally understood what is in them and what's happening with the brain.

[00:10:38] So kind of walk me through what we know so far about the impact of using cigarettes versus vaping.

[00:10:43] Megan: That's a great question, because I do think that there, you know, there has been some confusion around that and, and it is true that vaping is. As bad for your body, physically as a traditional burned combat, what's called a combusted cigarette.

[00:10:59] There are damaging things that happen to your body from the actual burning of tobacco that vaping doesn't have those however, The nicotine levels that young people are getting right now from vaping are actually much higher than what they were getting from cigarettes. So one Juul pot, for example, contains as much nicotine as an entire pack of cigarettes.

[00:11:28] And so a lot of young people who started vaping. Let's say that they had started smoking cigarettes. They probably would not have become pack a day smokers in high school, for example. Whereas we've seen with vaping that young people are vaping at very high level. Very frequently, you know, that that trajectory, if you will, is, is much faster with e-cigarettes and that's in part because of the device itself, that e-cigarettes are more discreet.

[00:12:03] You know, you can't get away with smoking a cigarette in the middle of class. For example, the way that many young people have been able to sometimes vape during class or on a school bus or something like that, where they wouldn't be able to smoke a cigarette. But also because the product itself is designed to deliver nicotine more quickly and at higher levels.

[00:12:23] So e-cigarettes, I'm really precipitated by. Actually deliver something called nicotine salts, which is a different way, like a different mechanism of delivering nicotine that gets absorbed much more quickly and delivers like a big sort of punch of nicotine. And so of course you can imagine that that that withdrawal cycle is a bit different.

[00:12:49] Potentially for vaping than it is for combusted cigarettes because of that. And so it's true that vaping doesn't have those burned properties that a traditional combusted cigarette has, but it is delivering nicotine at much higher levels that potentially are getting people addicted and feeling like it's much harder to quit faster than they would have on cigarettes.

[00:13:10] And also. There are other components of inhaling the e-cigarette aerosol that do still have damaging health qualities to your lungs, to your throat, to your mouth. I know we hear from young people all the time that that health is the number one reason. That's motivating them to try. And that's their health now and in the future.

[00:13:34] So it's true. We don't know what the long-term effects of e-cigarette use are, but we do know that lots and lots of young people are saying things like I'm having headaches. I get dry mouth. My throat hurts. My lungs don't feel good. I can't run as fast at soccer practice. I can't play trumpet as well in band.

[00:13:50] Right. They're feeling health effects as well as those mental health. And that's why with the truth campaign, we've really tried to shine a light on lots of these different angles about vaping that young people may not be as aware of. Like the fact that e-cigarettes may be safer, but that doesn't mean that they're safe.

[00:14:11] And of course, you know, our most recent campaign a breath of stress era to really shine a light on. How nicotine and vaping contributes to a very stressful loop in your life and can contribute to not feeling your best when it comes to mental health. Because so many young people just don't know the science about nicotine

[00:14:31] Sadie: in that way.

[00:14:32] Yeah. The last question I have here is kind of age of onset. Is there a difference between age of onset of teens that would be smoking cigarettes versus vaping? My thought would be maybe it'd be a lower age for vaping because again, it's like the, I guess it's the societal difference. It's a lot harder to smoke a cigarette versus with like the smoke versus hitting someone's vape really quickly.

[00:14:55] What's the, what's the difference?

[00:14:59] Megan: Yeah. There are, that's it, you know, that's a good question. And there certainly are a lot of different people trying to understand as best they can what's happening in the world with young people right now. And certainly COVID has complicated that a bit because lots of surveying of young people used to happen in schools.

[00:15:16] And last year, a lot of those surveys had to be online because you know, COVID was changing the way that young people were in school. So. We definitely are seeing kids vaping at a very young age. Anecdotally I've seen children as young as eight who are looking for help to quit vaping. Wow.

[00:15:37] Quitting vaping at eight years old. So I can only imagine, you know, when they started vaping, if they're already feeling like they need to quit by, by age eight. And definitely in certain. Communities and in certain subcultures the youth tobacco use rate is very high and that you know, that can be very different from one community to another.

[00:16:00] So, you know, there's data that you could look at nationally, but then there's also community data and the experience of young people wherever they are, and that's their reality. And and what we're seeing is again Use uptake of e-cigarettes is, is very concerning. And you know, it seems that it potentially is on a downward trajectory, but it's still very

[00:16:23] Sadie: high.

[00:16:24] Yeah. Yeah, no, that's, that's very interesting. And I know again, anecdotally, When I was in middle school, there was a great, that was a couple of years younger than me. And they had this big whole problem because everyone kept vaping in the bathrooms. And even like five, 10 years ago, the idea that someone would be smoking a cigarette on campus at a middle schooler would be so shocking.

[00:16:45] Everyone would be like, what are you talking about? Versus vaping. You'd be like, yeah, that sounds reasonable. Happens all the time. Yeah, it's just so much more common in that younger demographic. Oh

[00:16:54] Megan: youth cigarette smoking is down to an all time. Historic low youth, you know, youth cigarette smoking is down under 5%.

[00:17:02] Wow. And what we're seeing is that in the past few years, youth vaping is higher than even youth smoking was 20 years ago. Oh, my, so, you know, it really experienced this meteoric rise and, you know, we're trying to help bring it down as much as possible because it is so, so damaging for young people.

[00:17:23] Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. So Megan, you touched on kind of the connection between vaping and, and mental health and how it can increase like anger and irritability, anxiety, stress, all of those things. Jake, I would love to kind of hear your experience there. What was your mental health? Either while inactive nicotine addiction, or even after in the withdrawal period which is known to be really, really tough mental health wise.

[00:17:45] Jake: Yeah, no, absolutely. Actually that was part of the. But kind of the process of me realizing that I was needing to stop. I mean, a big part of it for me. I know it's not the case with everyone. Part of it was the finances. I started to see that I was spending a ton of money. But then yeah, to kind of jump in somewhere.

[00:18:01] In the middle of my addiction process, it was kind of as I was finishing up my freshman year in college so the stress was definitely kind of hitting me with finalizing school. We had soccer still going on in the spring and the off season. So that was still you know, quite a bit And I just knew I could just kind of feel it, that I just couldn't grab onto anything positive.

[00:18:21] It was so hard for me to look at the bright side of things, or even when I accomplished something, it was just, you know, there was no satisfactory feeling after it was done. It was just, you know, quickly transitioning onto the next thing that I had to work on and kind of right back into the low aspect of, of those feelings.

[00:18:40] So yeah, I definitely remember feeling very down and it was. And it was funny. Something that I always like to share a little bit about my mental kind of state at one point was I remember myself like giving myself the okay to use. Especially when I was struggling to come off when I'd have a tougher day.

[00:18:59] And it was funny because I knew what I was doing was wrong. But like somewhere in my mind, I was trying to find the, you know, some pathway that gave me the mental. Okay. Or the mental clarity. Clearance to use it again for the day and to not feel this incredible guilt, you know, using it. So it just really scared me when I came to that realization that my mind was trying to find a way to give me the okay.

[00:19:24] To use something that I knew was really bad for me on all aspects. So yeah, I feel like that kind of gives you a good insight to. What I was feeling and kind of thinking during the heat of addiction it really, really messes with

[00:19:38] Sadie: your mind. Yeah. And I think it's so interesting how the usage was tied to like, oh, I've had a bad day.

[00:19:44] This is how I'm going to feel better. And it's not like, oh my gosh, I've had the best week I scored so well on this test. So then I'll vape. It's definitely speaks to why and how young people are using vaping to cope with these stressors that they're experiencing. And, and, and like you touch on it.

[00:20:00] Becomes even more challenging to navigate and adds another stressor to their life.

[00:20:03] This week's episode is sponsored by teen counseling. Teen counseling is better helps online therapy program with over 14,000 licensed therapist in their network.

[00:20:12] The offers support on things like depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma in so much more this is so fitting for this week's episode. If you're looking for more professional support, . In addition to that this is quitting hotline and the resources that truth offers teen counseling is a great option. You can get support via talk, text, and video counseling.

[00:20:30] So whatever of level support you're looking for, they can meet you where you're at. So what you're going to do is you're going to go to teen counseling.com/shepersisted. You're going to fill out a quick survey about what your goals are in therapy. This is that they can match you with a counselor that meets your needs.

[00:20:45] And then you will put in a parent or guardian information. If you are under 18, none of your information is disclosed. This is just to give payment and consent for treatment. I tried it out. I sent the email to myself and all it says a Sadie or whatever your name is, is hoping to work with a therapist from teen counseling.

[00:21:00] Please click here to learn more and give consent for treatment. So none of your information that's in that survey is disclosed again. That's just to make sure you have a good fit with the therapist that you are matched with. And from there you can start meeting with a therapist. So to start your therapy journey or start meeting with a new therapist had do teen counseling.com Sashi persisted.

[00:21:20] Again, that is teen counseling.com. Sashi persisted.

[00:21:23] I would love to dive into this as quitting and talk about that as a resource. And why you guys decided to create that the, the need you saw and, and how you've heard it helping young people's journeys.

[00:21:35] Megan: Yeah. I'd love to talk more about that.

[00:21:36] So back in fall of 2018, I was starting to see more and more online on social media. But lots of young people, we're not only talking about vaping, but we're starting to talk about quitting. And I was seeing a lot of young people asking things on Twitter and Reddit, you know, they would say things like I want to quit, but I don't know how, or has anyone quit before?

[00:21:58] Does anyone know how to quit? What advice do you have for me in quitting? I brought that to some of my colleagues at truth initiative. And I said, you know, I'm starting to see lots of young people talking about quitting Juul as their new year's resolution that year. And there's not a lot of resources.

[00:22:15] There's actually really not anything out there to help young people quit. And I think we're we should do something about it. You know, we have lots of experience at truth initiative at that time, helping adults quit smoking and quit other forms of tobacco and So we started to conduct more research to help us better understand that lived experience of young people.

[00:22:37] And I personally conducted several interviews with young people or teens and young adults, college students, high school students, you know, people who had successfully quit people who were still trying to quit, or maybe even had given up on quitting, but just talking about what their experience was like.

[00:22:53] And there were a few. Key insights that came out of that that helped inform what became this is putting. So one was that lots of young people I talked to and that I would see online, they really were not very experienced. They probably never tried to quit something before, and they really weren't prepared for what it was going to feel like to quit and how hard it was going to be.

[00:23:16] And it was almost like a rude awakening when they would try to quit cold Turkey, that it was much, much harder than they expected. And, and they would feel really desperate for support at that time. But a lot of them, and this is kind of the second big insight is that. Quitting was very lonely. A lot of the young people that we've talked to and that we saw, they, they didn't know anyone else who was quitting.

[00:23:42] Maybe they didn't want to tell people in their life that they were quitting either because they didn't think that they'd feel supported by their friends who were still there. Or conversely, they felt like, oh, my friends and family would support me, but then I'd have to tell them that I'm vaping and they didn't want to do that.

[00:23:59] And so that was a barrier to accessing some of that social support in their own life. And then the third big insight was that young people wanted some. Anonymous and confidential something very discreet. They didn't want to have to tell people that they were quitting or tell, you know, they didn't want to have to post something on social media to say they were quitting or, or get you know, permission from their school or have to let their parents know or something like that.

[00:24:23] And so we developed this as quitting as a text message program because there's a very strong evidence-based behind using text messaging to help people quit smoking and. So many of the young people, when I was interviewing them, I would try to schedule a phone call or a video call. And again, this was before the zoom era.

[00:24:41] So, you know, video chat was sort of less common at that point, but still many of the young people that I spoke to would say, can we just text instead? And so that was a big signal for me. That was like, oh, we should just deliver the quitting program by text message. And that's how these young people want to be talking anyway.

[00:24:58] So the program is written in first person. It's designed to feel like a supportive friend who also has the dome up, like thousands of other people who are quitting. And so a really cool aspect of the program. All of our young people who use it, have the opportunity to add a message to the library. And most of the messages that you get when you sign up for this is putting, have been written by other young people, just like you, who have gone through this before, who know what it's like.

[00:25:27] And so that's a mix. You know, practical tips, like what they do to get through cravings or how they manage stress without vaping. And then there's some things that are like motivational or inspirational. You know, you've got this, you're not alone. I'm rooting for you. Some of it is more Insight about what it's going to feel like, or, you know, what's normal, it's normal to feel hard.

[00:25:50] You know, we want people to feel like even if they're lonely, they're not alone. And there are at this point over 420,000 other teens and young adults who are quitting with. We're just like them who are going through this and whatever they're feeling, whether it's feels hard or it feels good, or it feels, you know, sometimes quitting can be stressful, but then, you know, you cross over that and it feels great.

[00:26:15] And however, you're feeling. Other people have felt that we chew, nothing is weird. I think it was wrong. You're not doing it wrong. You know, by, by being even interested in quitting you know, you're doing it right. And so this is quitting is a program that you can sign up for. You just texted FAPE to 8, 8, 709 to sign up.

[00:26:33] And if you're ready to set a quit date, you can do that. And you'll start getting messages. That are tailored to your quit date and to what type of e-cigarette you use that help guide you on that quitting process. So you can get messages leading up to quit day to help you prepare to help you practice and get ready.

[00:26:49] And then after quit day to keep your motivation up to help you get through cravings, to help you get through tough times and to, you know, really learn. Or relearn how to live your life without vaping being part of it. And if you're not ready to commit to a quit date yet, that's totally fine too. So when you signed up for the program, if you're not ready to set a quit date, you can just use the program.

[00:27:10] You get 30 days of messages designed to help you build confidence, build up your skills, practice, quitting, and different ways to try to get in feeling more ready to make that quit attempt whenever you are ready. And then anyone who uses the program. Okay. Access what we call on-demand support. So you can text in a number of different keywords, like tips or stress or crave or.

[00:27:35] Feels, if you just want more motivation or inspiration you can text in those keywords and get an instant message back any time so that you don't have to wait for your next, like outbound scheduled message from this is quitting. If you are having a strong craving, you want an instant support. You know, we got you just text him anytime.

[00:27:52] And so we've seen really tremendous impact. From this as quitting, as I said, we've got over 420,000 people who have used it on their quitting journey. And you know, we're really proud of the way that it's helping young people, the impact that we see it having. And you know, the, the ways that young people really they really love it.

[00:28:14] You know, the majority of users stay enrolled for the full program. So they almost 75% of our users never unsubscribed. So they just, they like it. They engage with. And we've done some evaluation to show, you know, what exact impact it has. And we've seen that among young adults using this as putting increases, your odds are putting by about 40% and we're conducting a similar.

[00:28:41] And study among teen users right now to try to demonstrate that that same type of impact.

[00:28:47] Sadie: Yeah. That's, that's amazing. I also love to hear from both of you guys, what resources you recommend in addition to this as quitting, whether it's different podcasts or books or, or again this is quitting as a Textline.

[00:29:00] Do you recommend like going to a pediatrician or your doctor things like that, what else do you recommend?

[00:29:07] Megan: You maybe want to start and talk about like, what was helpful to you and then I can share some other resources too.

[00:29:12] Jake: Yeah, absolutely. Because I actually did kind of a number of different things.

[00:29:15] I realized that as I progressed away from quitting, I would. It's going to sound kind of odd to explain the whole thing. I would quit kind of in pieces because each day was different. I'd hang out with a different group of friends and I've had different route of activities. And I started to notice the more active I was, I was always an active kid in an active family.

[00:29:35] So the more active day I had, the less inclined that I was thinking about the product. And. So started trying to fill my day out with more of those kinds of activities. You know, for instance, and another kind of point that I really struggled with was the social aspect. So I had to kind of find a different set of tricks and kind of tips to deal with those settings.

[00:29:56] Because late night kind of hang with my friends you know, watching them all kind of participate in it. It was. It's extremely difficult. You know, everyone has patients, but that was just a real test or so for awhile I had little reminders on the backs of my phone. I didn't really quite jump onto the tech stuff right away, just cause I was, you know, mine happened back in 2018 kind of when this was first emerging.

[00:30:18] So I had to kind of create my own, but yeah, phones were little messages. Confidence boosting a reassuring kind of stuff really helped me tackle each segment of the eviction. That's kinda how I view it as like, there was different segments because there is different situations that I was dealing with.

[00:30:36] And each of them kind of took something a little differently for me to to deal with them. And I would say to anybody who's listening, just a. You know, find out yours. I think, you know, we can provide tons of different options, but kind of trying to learn how to tailor what options might fit for your pieces that you're struggling with are going to be, are going to be best.

[00:30:58] So that's kinda, that's kind of how my experience has been.

[00:31:01] Megan: Yeah. That's such a great point, Jake. And it's something that this is putting, you know, really tries to do. And we hope that young people do. You're going to need to experiment. You're going to need to try different things to see what works for you in different situations.

[00:31:16] And if something doesn't work, that's not a failure. That's just a learning about, okay. You know, when I'm in this situation, you know, maybe when I'm out with these friends, I need to have a message on the back of my phone as like a mantra for. But when I am in this other situation, it's really helpful to have a fidget toy to play with, you know, something like that, where it's like different things might work for you in different situations.

[00:31:43] I think that's, that's really powerful. There are some other resources that we provide. You know, we've partnered with a couple different groups to try to help young people in different ways. So one of those groups we've partnered with is breath work, which is a guided breathing app. And actually this is putting users can get a free six months of the work premium service.

[00:32:02] And they've got some amazing resources to help you use guided breathing, to manage stress and Calmer feel less anxious and that can really make quitting feel more comfortable. And then we also have partnered with crisis text line because we know that some young people really want to talk one-on-one to to a live person and to someone who's trained at.

[00:32:23] A person who can support you in whatever you're going through. You know, whether that's something minor, like a really hard time at school or with your family or something more severe, like your experience and really bad depression. And you need someone to talk to you in crisis. Text line is a great resource for, for young people who need someone to talk to confidentially.

[00:32:42] Yeah. But you know, there, there are You know, I would say is there are people in your life that you trust and you feel comfortable with whether maybe that's a pediatrician, maybe it's a coach, maybe it's a, you know, someone at your church or another faith-based organization or someone at your school or your parents, you know, there are lots of people in your life who.

[00:33:07] I will say this to anyone who's name. There are a lots of people in this world who love you and support you and want to see you succeed in life. And so whoever those people are You know, tapping into that support can, can really be so helpful as you're going through this journey. And this is quitting can absolutely be a place of that support for you.

[00:33:27] And you've got lots of people on the other end who are rooting for you. But if there are people in your offline life too that can, that can be really powerful.

[00:33:34] Sadie: Yeah. If you guys could each give a piece of advice to teens and then parents who are trying to support their teen who is either currently in active addiction or wanting to quit or is in the quoting process, what would it be?

[00:33:49] Jake: Yeah. I kind of jumped right into it. I think my big tip would be You know, kind of what I said earlier, allow yourself to really get personal with it, find out what you need for each kind of aspect of your, you know, addiction and where you're at with it. And then also just being very honest with yourself.

[00:34:05] As I mentioned earlier, too, you know, I would tell myself. You know, in my mind things about me and it might give me a bok to use or, or kind of have a certain view on it. You know, and, and maybe that breath work with might help with that. And some of that meditation I did participate a little bit in this meditation along my process, but.

[00:34:23] Yeah, just being very honest and having a conversation about like, you know, what do you want out of the next couple of years? Or what do you want your goals to be? And again, just, yeah, just being very honest with yourself. Don't give yourself kind of any slack, especially kind of in this area. So and that can be certainly tough to do not saying that that's you know, you can just kind of.

[00:34:41] Out of the gate jumping in and kind of have that perspective, but just really encourage that kind of thought process because the game I think is, is one up here. So that's kinda just my real key point, just when the game up here.

[00:34:56] Megan: That's awesome. I would add to that, you know, the, the thing I would say to parents is that.

[00:35:01] You're not going to punish an addiction out of someone. You know, your child who's vaping. Needs love and support and information to get through this. And no amount of, you know, yelling or punishing is going to take that addiction away and nicotine is so addictive and is, you know, can be very hard to quit.

[00:35:28] And so I would just encourage any parents to really. Take a supportive approach to helping their child see this through to the other side. And we actually have some resources specifically for parents through a different program that we run out of truth initiative that's available at become an X.

[00:35:49] So that's E X become an x.org and parents can use that program as well to get some specific tailored information about how to help their child quit vaping. For young people, the biggest advice I would give you is just to reassure you that you can. It might feel hard, might be a stressful it definitely is possible and it is so, so worth it to try quitting, to keep trying and to, you know, to, as Jake said, to keep that experimenting and keep figuring out, you know, what works for you and to try lots of different things because it is possible and it is very much worth

[00:36:22] Sadie: it.

[00:36:23] Yeah. Kind of following up on that and the parents part of it, Jake, were there things that were helpful when people were trying to support you or were there things that you wish they would have done to support you on your journey? Because obviously it's such an internal process and again can be very isolating, but community-wise whether it was parents, friends, family, all of that.

[00:36:41] What was helpful. And then what do you wish was.

[00:36:44] Jake: Yeah, that was a great point. Cause actually, yeah, Megan touched on kind of a, an old memory kind of early in the process and my mom was super supportive through this whole thing, but I think for energy was put into different areas a little bit more caring.

[00:36:56] And so there was a lot of pressure for me to stop, especially at the start and yeah, just to any mom or dad listening that as I, you know, I understand your passion and so do so many other people, but it just made me want to like, huh. And not share about what was going on and kind of went through a low of that, you know, addiction again.

[00:37:16] So just be very comfortable with where you're. Yeah. Kid might be. And so to any young kid listening, Definitely be upfront with your parents. You know, I know it can be kind of scary. I was definitely scared to have more conversations about it, just because in fear of where the conversation might lead.

[00:37:32] But I found that the more open I was, the more respect I got out of the relationship in the sense that they understood where I was coming from wanting help. And they understood that fact they didn't blame me for it. But I also wanted to kind of touch upon something. I've done. I have, and a friend of mine and mine that has done this recently.

[00:37:49] The trickiest part for me was dealing around the social settings because there are a lot of friends who still use. And so that, that piece can be super tricky on my product. I started being very upfront with my friends on where I was at and I didn't need to like sit them down and have like this very formal conversation.

[00:38:06] I just brought it up pretty lightly that like, Hey I'm going to stop. And I always just, I started making the point that like, Hey, don't offer me anything. And if I asked, just shut me down. And so. For my friends. It was no problem for them because they didn't care whether I used it or not. And then eventually it maybe be just because I had a, you know, a group of guy, you know, guys, but they all started to kind of give me you know, grief for it.

[00:38:30] If I like was starting to slip up a little bit you know, maybe I'd ask for something and then, you know, they'd kind of give me like a joking, like, no, no, no. Like so oddly enough, the kind of that dynamic switched when I went from like, You know, don't let me do this. And, you know, they kind of started to have a little bit of fun and back and forth with it, which had.

[00:38:49] The kind of process along and deal with that. The toughest part for me, which was the social piece. So how you go about that? Your connections are definitely key. For sure. That was a great question.

[00:38:59] Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. It's really like do, as I say, and not as I do, I feel like it's a lot easier to tell someone else not to do something.

[00:39:05] Even if you're not actively quitting yourself, you could. Definitely helps support other people in their process and hold those boundaries. So I think that's huge to wrap things up where can people access truth resources? And this is quitting in a, you mentioned the number before, but to hear it one more time, so people can utilize that resource.

[00:39:23] Megan: Absolutely. So if you want to get started with this as quitting, try it out, see how it feels. If you like it, you can text ditch vape 2 8, 8, 7. And we also have some really powerful other things that we're doing through truth to try to help sort of build a culture where young people aren't feeling that kind of pressure to baby.

[00:39:48] Policymakers and lawmakers are supporting a world where vaping and tobacco use, you know, isn't having such an influence on young people. And so as part of that you can get more information on breadth of stress, air.com to learn more about this connection between vaping, nicotine, and stress and mental health.

[00:40:09] And we're also having something called a day of action. A moment of action. Sorry. On April 20th. And that's really like young people all across the country, mobilizing online and in person. Yeah, taking a breath together like this big collective breath, as a means to demand action from decision-makers about really declaring and making it known that vaping is this mental health issue.

[00:40:37] And you can learn more about. At the truth.com/mental health 2022. So the truth.com will always be, you know, where you can go to learn more about the truth campaign. But specifically you can learn more about that moment of action and how you can get involved by going to the truth.com/mentor.

[00:40:57] 2022. And you can sign up for this as quitting by texting ditch vape 2 8, 8, 7 0 9.

[00:41:03] Sadie: I love that. Well, thank you guys so much for sitting down with me. I know this episode is going to be helpful for so many teens and just be such a great resource. So thank you guys.

[00:41:13] Megan: Yeah. Thank you for having us and Jake.

[00:41:14] Thanks for sharing your so much of your story.

[00:41:17] Sadie: If you enjoy this week's episode, make sure to share with a friend, family member and post about it on social media. If you tag me at at cheaper assisted podcast, I'll make sure to repost and give you a little shout out. And like I mentioned, in last week's episode, I'm doing a huge giveaway at 100 reviews on apple podcasts.

[00:41:34] We are at 94 to make sure to leave a review and stay tuned on Instagram to hear about that. Thank you for listening and I'll see you next week. a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

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