124. Generational Healing: Nancy Diaz on Identity Struggles & Trauma for Multicultural Women of Color

Nov 29

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Today's guest is Nancy Diaz of Global Citizen Therapy. Nancy provides online therapy and coaching services for multicultural women of color in order to pave the way for generational healing. In this episode, we discuss the identity struggles that daughters of immigrants can face and communicating these struggles with parents, finding the perfect therapists and mental health resources for women of color, the relationships between systematic oppression and mental health struggles, and how generational healing can help treat trauma.

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About She Persisted (formerly Nevertheless, She Persisted)

After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.

a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

[00:00:00] Nancy: One of the things that a lot of people are coming to me for, is they're dealing with a lot of microaggressions, a lot of racial tension

[00:00:06] they're starting to notice that it's all becoming a bit too much. A lot of people, they're just coming because they're exhausted. They're just exhausted from having to constantly. For that seat at the table. And as one client of mine put it, she said, We work so hard to get that seat at the table that when we get there, we're so exhausted.

[00:00:25] We don't even know what to do now that we have the microphone.

[00:00:28] Sadie: Hello, hello and welcome back to She Persisted. Today's episode is an amazing one that I know is gonna be so helpful to so many of you guys. We have Nancy Diaz on the podcast. She's a trauma informed therapist for women of color who are daughters of immigrants. And we talk about so many things. We talk about systematic oppression.

[00:00:45] We talk about generational healing, navigating identity issues, setting boundaries in relationships. And how to support someone that is navigating these challenges. This was so enlightening for me to have this conversation with Nancy, and I'm so grateful for her, for sharing so many amazing tips and tricks and resources. So let's just dive into it and as always we review, subscribe, follow on social media at She Persisted podcast. So yeah, let's dive into it.

[00:01:12] Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Nancy. I'm so excited to have you. And she persisted.

[00:01:16] Nancy: Yeah. Thank you so much. It's so good to be here.

[00:01:19] Sadie: Of course. So I would love to start with your background, how you became a trauma informed therapist and specializing in this area, in this demographic.

[00:01:27] And yeah, what led you to working within the mental

[00:01:29] Nancy: health field? Yeah, of course. So yeah, my name is Nancy Diaz and I'm a trauma informed therapist and I specialize in working with women of color who are daughters of I. And I work with issues such as identity crisises, and that's such a tricky word to say, isn't it?

[00:01:45] Yeah, . But yeah, things like anger, things like trauma, all kinds of things. There's so much happening with this particular demographic, but yeah, identity issues, that's, that's one of the main ones. And that's what I wanted to talk about today because this is something that actually starts when you're an adolescent.

[00:02:03] Sadie: Yeah. So I would love to, first, before we dive into identity, talk about why these are more prevalent issues in women of color daughters of immigrants, why they are more likely to struggle with identity issues and why they are more at risk. And what you've seen in your practice.

[00:02:20] Nancy: Yeah, of course. So I think one of the main reasons that this affects this demographic is because we tend to grow up between two different cultures. So our immigrant parents are from one country. We grew up in a totally different country. Usually there's a clash of values. There's. Just a, a clash of everything and you grow up feeling as if you're not enough of one and you're not enough of the other.

[00:02:47] And so, yeah, in this very important stage of development, it's tricky because you really want to fit in, but at the same time, you don't want to let go of, your parents' culture, of your parents' roots. You want to own. But you want to fit in. And unfortunately, some countries are not very welcoming of you to show up as yourself.

[00:03:10] And then it just depends on, you know, your peer group as well and how welcoming they are and how much they want you to show of yourself. And so, yeah, there's all kinds of things that, that might impact this. How much you've assimilated acculturated and yeah, I think how much you actually. Know about your parents' culture and how you've grown up and the messages that you've received from your parents, but also from society as far as how much you should own that identity.

[00:03:40] So yeah, that's, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[00:03:43] Sadie: What are some common characteristics of struggling with identity? Is it certain thoughts that come up? Emotions? You talked a little bit about family dynamics that arise. How are your clients first acknowledging and noticing that? I think I'm struggling with my identity.

[00:03:59] I think I'm struggling to have these two pieces of me fit together. What are those first signals that listeners can keep an eye out?

[00:04:07] Nancy: Yeah, I think one of the main things that I hear is that feeling of not being enough, not being enough of one culture, not being enough of the other, and then that shows up in adulthood as well.

[00:04:19] It shows up in, in different ways and. Thinking that you're not good enough at work, thinking that you're not good enough as a parent. I know a lot people struggle when they become parents as well, and they think, Oh, well, what if my child doesn't learn my parents language? Or, you know, what if they struggle at school, if they're bullied because they look a certain way.

[00:04:40] They're a bit of this weird mix. You know? It's, Yeah. Yeah. It's, those are the things to look out.

[00:04:46] Sadie: What are your tips for teens that are struggling with their relationship with their parents? They are, have this kind of unique experience from their parents and that they're growing up somewhere else.

[00:04:58] We talked about like how at school their, their friends are coming from a different background that can sometimes create tension or conflict. What advice and tips do you give your clients for navigating that difficulty and challenge in that relationship with their parents?

[00:05:13] Nancy: It really starts with communication, and I know that that's really hard when you're a teen and there's so many different emotions that are coming up and it can be really hard to just slow down and just communicate what it is that you're feeling.

[00:05:29] But if. You have parents who you think might be responsive to you just communicating what it is that you're feeling, then I would definitely recommend starting. And trying to really focus on eye statements. And this is something that I say, you know, regardless of your age, regardless of who it is that you're talking to, but especially when you're a teenager and you're struggling to kind of put everything into words and there's a lot of anger, right?

[00:05:58] For teens. Yeah. And. That especially is important to use those eye statements because you're just at that stage where you're kind of angry at the world. You just have so much going on. You have the raging hormones. You have so much happening that you start to really feel angry for different reasons. , and sometimes it's valid and sometimes it's the hormones.

[00:06:19] But I recommend just communicating whatever emotion that is, but especially if it's anger by using I statements. Like I'm just feeling very angry because you have grounded me and I really wanted to go to this. You know, that's communicating your emotion versus saying, You're the worst.

[00:06:35] You don't let me do anything. Things like that. Instead of placing the blame on that person, try to just communicate how it is that you're feeling, what it is that you're thinking, and maybe even why it is that you're behaving a certain way. That requires some, some serious skills, some serious self awareness, and it can be challenging, but the more that you practice this, the better that you become.

[00:06:57] But I think in our society, we're just so focused on, this is how we speak, this is how we communicate with people, especially when we're angry. We use this, you, you, you, you. And obviously it really activates the other person because then they get really defensive and then the communication is really d.

[00:07:13] So that's why I highly recommend using the I statements when you say, I feel it's really hard for the other person to say like, No, you don't feel that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, your emotions. That's how you feel. That's what you're thinking. It's hard for them to say like, No, you don't feel that way.

[00:07:30] Sadie: Yeah. If listeners, you're listening and you're like, Okay, I know the basic emotions, but I do struggle to verbalize exactly what I'm experiencing. That is me. 100%, especially when I'm overwhelmed with emotion, figuring out the exact words is really difficult. So one of my favorite tips, if you could even call it that, is this app called Mood Meter.

[00:07:48] And you open it and it shows you four different quadrants. So your high energy, unpleasant, high energy, pleasant, low energy, unpleasant and low energy, pleasant. So right now, I'd say probably pretty low energy, but feeling pleasant. And then it breaks down all of the different spectrums of emotions based on like how.

[00:08:06] Energize the emotion is how positive and negative it is. So it gives you the difference between like mellow, thoughtful, peaceful, comfy, carefree, serene, cozy, tranquil, complacent, sleepy, like all of these different words that I would never be able to verbalize in the moment. And you can track them as well.

[00:08:24] So you could record your emotions every day. You can record them throughout conflicts or interactions or just different stressors that come up. And so that's one of my favorite tips that's a little bit more fun than like looking at one of those mood wheels or those emotion charts where you're like, I don't wanna see another one of those, but that's one of my favorites for labeling those.

[00:08:42] What are some common. I statements that you could give examples for when teens are trying to communicate to their parents about struggling with identity. I feel like it's easier when you're like, Okay, I'm stressed about school. I'm anxious about a test that's coming up, or I'm feeling annoyed at my friends because they're gossiping about me or something like that.

[00:09:05] But these. Abstract issues with identity can be so difficult to verbalize and communicate effectively. What are some, either common ways you've heard teens verbalize those or tips that you have from your experience or that you've seen in clients where you're like, That's a great way to explain that.

[00:09:21] That's a great I statement that can be

[00:09:23] Nancy: used. . Yeah. I think one of them is just communicating how you're feeling and just again, just verbalizing that because I think a lot of times immigrant parents, they, they have their own issues. They've just arrived to a new country and even if they've been there for a while, they're still struggling to adjust, to adapt.

[00:09:42] They have their own traumas. You know, there's a theory that immigration itself is traumatic because it's such a huge life transition. So even if things go really smoothly, you know, there's the theory that immigration itself is a trauma. So if we look at it through that lens, through that point of view, they have so much going on that oftentimes they can't be fully present and they can't ever really understand our own experience.

[00:10:05] So communicating that with an I statement and just saying that, because I think a lot of times for children of immigrants, we. Guilt of, you know, they sacrifice so much for us and we can't really voice our needs, our concerns because they are going through so much still, and I just need to be okay and I can't really be a burden to them.

[00:10:28] And for a lot of children of immigrants, we've been parentified, as in, we have to grow up really quickly because we often have to help our immigrant parents. So even. Translating documents, interpreting parent teacher conferences or even if we're not doing any of those things. But yeah, just helping them like, Oh, this is what, you know, people do in the US and this is different from in your country.

[00:10:50] But, you know, explaining things like that. And so oftentimes we have to grow up very quickly and so it becomes hard for us to really, stop slow down, rest, take care of ourselves. And so communicating those needs with our parents and. I am feeling really exhausted because I have this project happening at school and you're asking me to help you with this legal document and TT it, but it's feeling really overwhelming.

[00:11:17] And so maybe even starting with that and communicating and just saying like, I really want to help you with your taxes, but you know, maybe we can find someone this year that can help you. Or, you know, is there any way that we can get some things off of my plate? And with the identity crisis, maybe just communicating like, I'm finding it really hard to fit in because I don't want to be.

[00:11:41] Of, you guys. But at the same time, I'm getting teased at school or, you know, I'm feeling not comfortable. We call them the lunchbox moments when you show up with food from your parents' culture and you feel embarrassed by it. And so communicating that lunchbox. Moment and saying, I am feeling like not that comfortable and showing up with this food and, and just letting them know like, this is why, someone made this comment and really not keeping that all to yourself.

[00:12:13] I think that's the most important thing because then you take that with you into adulthood and you carry that, that shame. And then we struggle with the guilt as we become older and we realize like, Oh my God, that must have. Awful. What I did, even when I was thinking. That I was ashamed of my parents' culture, I should have just, you know, not cared.

[00:12:33] Yeah. But of course, when you're a teenager, it just makes sense. You're in that stage of development where identity is super important and fitting in is super important. So I think the other thing I'm going to say is, yes, use those eye statements to communicate, but also don't be super hard on yourself.

[00:12:49] If you are struggling with this, it's completely normal. It's completely natural that it's definit. Something that all humans experience, that wanting to belong, wanting to fit in. Yeah. And so if you're struggling because you feel like you've grown up between two different cultures, two different worlds, it's completely normal to feel as if you are failing, as if you aren't fitting in and as if you're never going to fit in.

[00:13:14] It's definitely a tricky thing, but if you can, I recommend working with a therapist to really start to develop that self-esteem and develop that confidence and work toward actually feeling good in your identity and owning it.

[00:13:28] Sadie: Other resources that people can look for. When you're working with a therapist, you're a trauma inform therapist.

[00:13:34] Do you recommend that children of immigrants look for trauma informed therapists? Is there an effective way to ask therapists if they have experience working with children of immigrants or people of color? What would you look for on the other side if you were finding a therapist for one of your clients or

[00:13:50] Nancy: for yourself?

[00:13:51] Yeah, it can be a little bit tricky, but luckily there are quite a few resources and you definitely can, you can find people who specialize in this, such as myself. I'm very clear on my website. This is, who I work with. I talk about these issues on my podcast, on social media. I'm talking about this and I do know you follow quite a few therapists who you know are talking about.

[00:14:13] Experience of children of immigrants. So you definitely can find people who specialize in this. There's not too many of us who really specialize in this and work with this. Population in particular, but if you find a therapist that you think is a good fit and you're not sure if that's something that they have experience working with, you can definitely ask them that in an email.

[00:14:34] In the initial consultation call, you could just say, Do you have experience? Working with children of immigrants, or you can say like, I want to communicate my thoughts and feelings and just work on, the immigrant experience and, you can communicate it that way. But yeah, there are fortunately directories and these aren't available.

[00:14:54] In certain countries, but in the US there are quite a few inclusive therapists. There's therapy for black girls. There's Latinx therapists, there's Asian directories as well. There's all kinds of specific directories for people of color. And you can filter those and look for people who work with teens or look for people who may be special.

[00:15:15] I think identity crisis is definitely one of the things that you can check the box. Yeah. On sites like inclusive therapists. I know. I think they have that one. Okay. So yes, luckily it's something that's being talked about a bit more. It's something that's being recognized that people are struggling.

[00:15:30] So yes, I do recommend, even doing a Google search, like children of immigrants therapists or immigrant therapists and then looking on these directories. If you are in the us, if you're outside of the US it's a little bit trickier, but yes. That is something that I'm pretty passionate about helping people, you know, find that therapist that's a good fit.

[00:15:49] So if I have a consultation call with someone and I don't end up being a good fit, I have my own large network of therapists who kinda specialize in these issues that I might be able to refer you to. So definitely feel free to reach out and I'm happy to connect you because I know I can be a little bit tricky and.

[00:16:05] Especially in the US when therapists can only see people in their state. And if you live in a state where there's not that many therapists who specialize in this or they might be full, it can be really tricky. So I would just say don't give up hope. Just reach out. I'm happy to help and try to connect you.

[00:16:21] If I don't have space myself, I'll definitely make sure that you find someone because I know it can. Definitely a journey and it can be quite challenging and overwhelming, so happy to help.

[00:16:31] Sadie: I think that's been one of the greatest things that came out of Covid is the norm of telehealth and having virtual appointments for therapists that would normally do only in off.

[00:16:41] This because like you said, a lot of these certifications or having your license is within a state, and so you could meet someone that's a four hour drive away from you or across the state and still be able to meet with them rather than having to drive to their office every single week or, or wait for their patient load to go down because there's only one therapist

[00:17:01] Nancy: in your area.

[00:17:02] Yeah. Yeah. That's added a lot of con. Yeah, I work people all over the world. I'm actually located in Australia, but I work with clients in Europe and in the US and in Australia, in Asia sometimes. So yes, it's been great for that. Unfortunately, with the US it, yeah, telehealth is amazing, but if you're a therapist and you're licensed in a certain state, you cannot see someone.

[00:17:26] In another state. Yeah. So even with the power of Zoom and all this technology, that is something that is quite frustrating. So yes, because I am outside of the us, it makes it easy for me to be able to see people no matter what state they're in, in the us. Yeah. So yes, that's, that's the amazing thing of telehealth and for me of living abroad is that I'm not limited by the licensing in the us.

[00:17:51] So yes, that's been definitely one of the reasons that I chose not to get licensed over there. I said it limits you so much, and I think because this is so needed and because it's so hard to find someone who specializes in working with children of I. I said, Okay, I wanna be able to have my doors open no matter where you are in the world.

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[00:19:51] I love that. Are there other books, podcasts, people to follow websites? I don't know if there's even like crisis support lines that specifically specialize in crisis situations for children immigrants, people of color. But what other resources are there for people that either don't have access for therapy or maybe they're like, I'm not sure if I wanna take that step yet.

[00:20:12] What other resources do you re.

[00:20:15] Nancy: Yeah. One of the resources that I recommend someone who really talks about the issues that children of immigrants experience you can follow the account on Instagram. It's called Brown Girl Therapy, and she talks quite a bit about this. She's the daughter of immigrants herself, and so she talks about a lot of the mental health issues.

[00:20:33] She's a therapist as well, and so she talks about these, and so yeah, she's the one who. Inspired me to get into this work and to really say, This is what I want to specialize in. There wasn't a lot of people doing this, and I didn't know if it was a good idea, but I just said, Okay, I'm loving her content.

[00:20:50] I'm loving her work. I want to also, join forces and do something similar so you can follow Brown Girl Therapy. There are other therapists who are on social media who maybe don't focus in the same way as she does. Yeah, there's brown Mama trauma that you can follow as well. There's brown girl cycle breakers.

[00:21:11] There's all kinds of accounts that you can follow on Instagram and. Yeah, some of them have podcasts as well, so. Awesome. I think if you start with those, Yeah, you'll slowly find others as well. Yeah.

[00:21:22] Sadie: I did a panel a really long time ago, it probably was like at least a year or two years ago when I first started the podcast and it was a, a mental health self care kind of panel and Brown girl therapy was also on it and really wanna have her on the podcast.

[00:21:36] She got really busy cuz she's writing a book or she was writing a book last time I reached out. So I'm still gonna pitch, still gonna try and get her on, but she's amazing and she does have so much wisdom and insight and her content is amazing.

[00:21:48] Mm-hmm. , one thing that I do wanna touch on, which I think will be interesting to get your perspective on, is systematic oppression and how that relates to mental health.

[00:21:56] I feel like most people kind of have an idea of a definition or generally how that impacts society, but how do you see that impacting people's mental health, whether that's emotions, their relationships, Thought patterns, their beliefs, How does that show up in that kind of like identity and personal

[00:22:13] Nancy: sense?

[00:22:13] Yeah, it shows up quite often. I mentioned the beginning. That's one of the issues that I see quite often with this population is that racial trauma, It comes from the systemic oppression. And so yeah, that's one of the things that a lot of people are coming to me for, especially at this moment, is they're dealing with a lot of microaggressions, a lot of racial tension at work.

[00:22:34] They're starting to notice that it's all becoming a bit too much. So whether it's a lot of people, they're just coming because they're exhausted. They're just exhausted from having to constantly. For that seat at the table. And as one client of mine put it, she said, We work so hard to get that seat at the table that when we get there, we're so exhausted.

[00:22:54] We don't even know what to do now that we have the microphone. And so, yeah, that's one of the things that I'm seeing that it's really impacting our mental health. And I'm glad that more people are talking about it now because it definitely is. Something that, you know, we don't think about. Like, Oh, this is, you know, the reason behind my depression.

[00:23:12] This is the reason that I'm more anxious, or, you know, this is the reason that I am struggling, with being triggered at work and things like that. But yeah, this is definitely one of those things that you know, can be. Something like complex trauma because it's not necessarily from one event. You don't have to be, attacked because of your race.

[00:23:31] In order to be experiencing racial trauma. It can just be from microaggressions that you've experienced throughout your life. And that it's really taken that toll. And so now that you're reaching out for help another way that systemic oppression shows up is the barriers that you have in accessing those mental health resources.

[00:23:50] So that's why I'm glad that, there are directories that exist that make it hopefully a little bit easier to find a therapist of color that maybe can relate to your experiences that maybe is well versed in things like racial trauma. Maybe more culturally sensitive, has that cultural humility.

[00:24:08] So yes, there's definitely quite a bit that we could talk about with this, but that's, I think the main things that I'm seeing is that racial trauma and people are coming to actually work through some of that. A lot of my clients are coming to try to work through some of these microaggressions learn tools and techniques.

[00:24:25] And so sometimes we even do role playing or I teach them. Micro interventions or how to actually communicate how to handle when you are at work and someone makes a backhanded comment and you feel like you're not good enough. And so how would you do that

[00:24:41] Sadie: if that's something that listeners have experienced, I assume probably in school or in, in some community event.

[00:24:48] I feel like less teenagers. In a workplace enough that that would happen. Like most people are doing shifts on the weekend or something once or twice a week. Mm-hmm. . But if that happens at school or with, I don't know, a teacher or an adult or someone within your life, how do you recommend people respond to that?

[00:25:04] Nancy: The first thing that I tell my clients is that you cannot be hard on. In whatever way you respond. And a lot of people, they come because they say, I want to stop freezing. But I just remind them that when you experience something like this, you notice it in your body that you tense up and, you feel very activated.

[00:25:24] And so you kind of go into survival. , and that is completely normal because you don't know, and we see these things on the news. We might have had friends or family members who have actually experienced like a horrific attack that's race based or something like that. But either way, we know that these things happen.

[00:25:43] And so it makes sense that when someone it, it's just a. , but usually that's how these things start. And so we don't know how bad that's going to get. So it a hundred percent makes sense that you tense up, that you go into survival mode. And so if we think about survival mode and the three responses, For the four responses now, right?

[00:26:02] There's fight, flight, freeze, but now there's also Fawn and Vaughn. I love because it definitely applies, especially when these situations come up because Fawn is essentially people pleasing. And so sometimes if this happens, your immediate reaction might be to brush it off or pretend it didn't happen, or just to smile at the person or do something that will please them so that the situation diff.

[00:26:25] But sometimes you freeze and that's completely normal and you don't know what to do or to say. This happens to me quite often as well, and that's something that I'm still working on, but I think it starts with really having that compassion for myself and just saying like, I have no idea what's going to happen here.

[00:26:41] And so if I freeze, that's okay. and I just, I come back to it. When I come back to it, I don't have a chance to say anything or do anything and the moment passes, then that's okay as well. We work through these skills and Yeah. But I think not being hard on yourself Yeah. Is the first thing.

[00:26:57] And if we do respond in some way, then realizing that that's a fight response. And realizing that that in itself can be risky because again, we don't know what this person is going to say, do how they're going to react, if it's going to escalate. But yeah, I do teach, client skills such as calling in versus calling out really learning how to assess the situation and deciding, does this person have, The intelligence, that capacity to understand, if I gently explain like, okay, this is a microaggression, this is why this is in something that you should be going around saying, this is why this is hurtful to me, or offensive or whatever it is, you might be able to do that.

[00:27:36] Or you might just be able to tell from that situation that they're not going to be able to receive that. Yeah. And so you have to really decide time. All of that, there's so many things that you have to assess, and that's why a lot of us freeze because there's so much that you have to think about in that split second that you have to really be kind to yourself if you just freeze and acknowledge that whatever your response is, it's a trauma response and it's valid whether you freeze, whether you decide to fight back, or whether you just run away.

[00:28:05] You know, it might not look like physically running away, but you. Just make an excuse to get out of whatever situation. Yeah. Isolate that's completely valid as well. So whatever your response is, just know that that's, that's okay. And you know, you can practice a little bit.

[00:28:20] Learn about these micro interventions, learn about how to assess these situations if you really want to fight back in this way and, and learn how to respond. But again, even if you. That's okay. The main thing is really to take care of yourself after something like that happens. And that's something that I started doing this year after I had some experiences like that where I was just like, You know what?

[00:28:43] This is actually valid, that I'm feeling this way. I've taken a day off before, for my own mental health and just really, sat with it and processed what had happened, why I was feeling that way, had a chat with my own therapist.

[00:28:55] Whatever it is that you need to do, but especially when something like that happens, definitely don't gaslight yourself. Don't tell yourself, Oh, I'm too dramatic, or, I can't believe that I had to take the day off because of this simple comment that someone made. Be really gentle with yourself and take care of yourself because what you're experiencing is a hundred percent valid.

[00:29:14] And so just remember to take care of yourself. It's something that is so, so hard for children of immigrants who didn't have that rest and self care model growing up, but it is something that's super important. And if we think of self-care, it's become such a buzzword. It's become so commercialized, it's completely lost.

[00:29:32] All of its. But it's so important. And at the root of it, it's just coping skills. You know, when something like this happens, any life stressor, you need to take care of yourself. And so we call it self care, but really, you are looking at what coping skills you have. How are you coping with the situation?

[00:29:50] What are you doing to actually take care of yourself? So this is one thing that I teach my. Quite a bit about is self care because a lot of us didn't have it modeled growing up. We have an unhealthy relationship with self care and so we really struggle and we think that we have to earn rest. We think that we have to earn self care and we think that we just don't deserve it unless we accomplish X, Y, and Z.

[00:30:14] And then we think, Okay, maybe now I can rest. But if we think about it, we never end up accomplishing everything on our to-do list. You know, there's always that next degree to chase after that next promotion. There's always something, And we are, I think by nature, a lot of children of immigrants where people pleasers.

[00:30:32] We have trouble setting boundaries. We have trouble really putting our needs first and communicating those. And so this is why I actually have been hosting these workshops that I call soul care versus self care, so that I can teach people like, Okay, this is why it's important, and this is why it's huge for you to actually put your own mental health first.

[00:30:52] Put your own needs first, and learn how to have a healthy relationship with self care and learn to practice what I call soul care, which is just how to nourish, replenish, and feel rejuvenated after you find your own type of soul. So I love that. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's the one thing that I'm super passionate about, is just helping people find those basics.

[00:31:13] Techniques, skills find that type of soul care that works for them. Because I think a lot of us, we're self-help junkies. We listen to podcasts, we read books. We try to do all of the things that, you know, are recommended to us. We try to journal, we try to meditate, we try all of these things and sometimes it just isn't.

[00:31:32] And so, yeah, I think it's unique to each person. I think finding that type of soul care. So that's what I help people do.

[00:31:40] Sadie: I really like what you mentioned about how it still can be derailing and very, I impactful and bring up a lot of emotions even when you observe something or you see something in the news, even if it doesn't happen directly to you.

[00:31:55] And it reminds me. Something we learned in my abnormal psychology class about PTSD diagnosis and prior to nine 11, the diagnosis criteria was that you had to be there. You had to be the one directly involved in the traumatic event. It had to happen to you or a close loved one. And they found that during nine 11, people that were saw it through window or they saw it on tv or they had a family or member, a friend who was on a plane or in the building or a first responder.

[00:32:24] They also started developing these symptoms of ptsd and this really intense response to this traumatic event without being involved with it or directly observing it. And so these symptoms, these emotions, they still arise through observation. And it's more likely that you get that diagnosis.

[00:32:42] So you develop the symptoms the closer you are to the event. So people that had a. Partner or a family member that was in the event experienced the most likely development of PTSD symptoms. And then people that were maybe gonna go to work in the same neighborhood that day versus people that saw it on the news and kind of going like outward in that circle.

[00:33:02] And I think what makes these. Stories that we see on the news so impactful is that it does hit so close to home. You think it, it could have been me, it could have been a family member. And it's so widespread that these emotions do arise because they're happening everywhere in the country and the world.

[00:33:20] And so it's no wonder that these emotions come up, and that's why it's so important to do. The self care to take the time to recharge and take care of yourselves and know the resources that you have access to and that you can utilize when you need them. Because it, again, it's not about did this happen directly to you, Did it get this bad and this work interaction the same emotions and reactions can still come up and that's completely valid and okay, and normal to experience.

[00:33:46] Nancy: completely valid. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be, you know, an act of terrorism for you to experience this type of ptsd. Yeah. Whether you're there or whether you're watching it on the news. But as you're talking, I'm just thinking about, you know, how many of us were deeply impacted by watching the Black Lives Matter movement and the protests, and the riots on the television, and it's definitely something that has affected us all. And so if you're still feeling the effects of that and you're feeling like you're struggling right now, then you definitely have every reason to, you know, still be angry and still be sad, and still be highly activated and triggered by, these microaggressions that are happening at work.

[00:34:25] And to still feel like you're struggling with that. ATTs and whether you wanna label it that or not, but yeah, I definitely have heard this research before of what amazing things kind of, it sounds horrible to say, but what amazing research has come out of, you know, nine 11, that we start to think of trauma in a different way.

[00:34:44] Yeah. And I am so happy that we're thinking about it in a different way because I think a lot of people experience this complex trauma that I'm so glad. Talking about a bit more. Yeah. And from there actually came more intervention strategies as well, and ways to actually help people heal through that trauma.

[00:35:03] Yeah. And one of the things that I learned was that there was a therapist who was actually doing emdr. With clients for trauma, for that ptsd. He was working with nine 11 victim survivors, family members, all of that. And he noticed that he was getting a bit stuck with some clients. He found EMDR to be really amazing, but he noticed that there was one client that he was working with.

[00:35:27] This wasn't related to nine 11, but he noticed that they, with those eye. They got really stuck in one particular location and the client said, Oh, I want to stay there. I want to stay focused on that spot there. And so they stayed there and that's what became known as now brain spotting.

[00:35:48] And finding that particular brain spot where you can access that trauma, where you can actually see that on a deeper level and yeah, have really rapid healing from that trauma. So that's one thing that I've been trained in now. And one thing that I love, especially for working with, you know, people who are experiencing, whether it's racial trauma, I also see a lot of, generational trauma or childhood trauma.

[00:36:10] I see. You know, those are kind of the main three. Children of immigrants usually come with, and so when we use things like, EMDR or brain spotting or these somatic approaches, it's really huge because we're looking at it as the trauma is stored in the body and there's oftentimes something that's stuck, something that we might not even know.

[00:36:29] Is there something that we have dissociated from that as a way of protecting ourselves. We have blocked off everything and we've just made a very conscious decision of, I'm not going to think about it. I'm not going to talk about it. And yeah, there's definitely science behind that. It makes sense that we are protecting ourselves from that.

[00:36:48] Something that happened that was horrific or a series of events that over time have become too much for us to handle. We've just completely detached. And that's okay. That's valid. And that's why sometimes self care isn't enough. You know, we talk about self care and we talk about things that we can do, but yeah, especially when it comes to racial trauma and systemic oppression and you know, dealing with these really heavy things that are very complex.

[00:37:13] Sometimes it is, you know, going, finding a trauma informed therapist, doing something like brain spotting or EMDR or somatic experiencing especially I think is really helpful for people of color because there's so much that has been stored in our bodies and it's been passed down from generations.

[00:37:28] It's not just something that we are experiencing now, but the reality is that even if we're talking about the Black Lives Matter movement, we've all watched that horrific. Seen on the news, and so that definitely we store that in our bodies. Yeah. But apart from that, you know, we're talking about what our parents have experienced, what their parents have experienced, what our ancestors have been through.

[00:37:49] We're talking about historical trauma, so it can be all pretty heavy.

[00:37:53] Sadie: That's the one thing that I wanted to wrap up on, which I think you're referencing is generational healing. And for listeners that aren't familiar with that term before and haven't heard of that, what is generational healing and how does that.

[00:38:06] Present or, or show up in the work that you do with your clients? Is that like the second step after they first kind of get a hold on? The emotions that are coming up in the present, do you start with generational healing and then work towards what's coming up for you now? How does that fit into everything else?

[00:38:20] We've touched on?

[00:38:21] Nancy: The way that I explain it to my clients is that, at least with my approach, it's completely client led and I'm not going to, you know tell any client that if they're experie. Anxiety and panic attacks and things that are really just the symptoms of trauma. I'm not gonna tell them we're not going work on that.

[00:38:39] We're gonna dive deep into the trauma. No, no. , no, No. So yeah, so sometimes we do start with the symptoms of trauma and then we get to actually addressing and trying to heal that trauma. And the way that I see what generational healing, there's not too much that you have to do. It's not like an extra thing that you have to do, but you showing up.

[00:38:58] To therapy or you doing your own healing work is huge because that's going to be passed down to the next generation. So it's not necessarily that you and your whole family have to show up to therapy, that you all have to do this healing work. Oftentimes it's really hard, especially for immigrant parents who didn't grow up, with.

[00:39:16] The access with the resources and when there's stigma in our communities and there's all these things, there's a distrust of, medical professionals because we've been experimented on all these things. So it can be hard for them to say, Yes, I'm going to go to therapy. It's not as easy as for us.

[00:39:32] You know, we've grown up in the US or we've grown up in these western countries where it's just a little bit more accept. It's a little bit easier for us to say, Yeah, I'm gonna go because I've heard that this is good. I know this can help for them, it might be a little bit harder, but that doesn't mean that there's not going to be generational healing because just you going to therapy, and I see this, and this is, I think my favorite part of being a therapist and especially working with this population.

[00:39:55] When a client comes in and they tell me, Oh, you know what we learned in session last week? I was telling my mom. Or, you know, I was telling my little niece about it, or, we did this exercise on affirmations, together with my little sister Yeah. I just see that ripple effect and, you know, the way I think of it, even if you don't have kids, but you might have, Yeah.

[00:40:16] Nieces, nephews, you might be around other children. You might in some little way, shape or form be impacting the lives of other. And even if you go backwards, if you teach your parents, your grandparents, even if you don't think that you are teaching or talking about what you're learning in therapy, even if you never tell your family that you're in therapy, that's your own personal decision, right?

[00:40:37] Whether to disclose that information or not. But you are still learning and healing on your own. And just by doing that, you're modeling different behavior. For your family members. You know, if you do have kids, you're modeling that for your kids. You're showing up. You don't have that heavy burden of trauma, to pass down to your kids.

[00:40:57] You don't have that heavy burden of trauma to, show up when you're interacting with your younger siblings or things like that. So yeah, it's, it's huge. And that's why, you know, I think all of my. Our cycle breaks in that way because they're showing up and they're doing that generation on healing.

[00:41:13] Sadie: I love that. To wrap things up, where can people follow you on social media? Where can they find your website if they wanna work with you and, continue to consume your content?

[00:41:24] Nancy: Yeah, so it's pretty easy to find me. I practice called Global Citizen Therapy, so you can find me on social media, on TikTok, on Instagram, Facebook, and our Global Citizen Therapy.

[00:41:35] And my website is global citizen therapy.com. My podcast is also called the Global Citizen Therapy Podcast, so I made it easy for people to kind of remember. As long as you find one of those, you'll be able to access some of my other content. And yeah, you can make an appointment to work with me on. Site or reach out through one of the, the social media platforms as well, whatever is easiest for you.

[00:41:57] And you can also sign up to take the so care versus self care workshop. That's gonna be up on my website pretty soon as well.

[00:42:04] Sadie: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so glad we got to do this and I learned so much from this conversation and I know listeners well as well. So thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and insight from your journey and your work with clients and

[00:42:17] Nancy: all of.

[00:42:18] Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for giving me this, this opportunity, , giving me this platform. It's, it's been amazing and I hope that it will help some people. Thank you. Awesome.

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