23. A Dad's Perspective: Preconceptions About Adolescent Mental Health, Parenting Tips, and Our Growth as a Family

Apr 10

listen to this episode:

I sit down with my Dad and ask him about his preconceptions about adolescent mental heath, we dive into his emotional experience when I was sent to treatment, his parenting principles, and how he's changed his perspective on parenting after navigating my mental health struggles.

About She Persisted (formerly Nevertheless, She Persisted)

After a year and a half of intensive treatment for severe depression and anxiety, 18-year-old Sadie recounts her journey by interviewing family members, professionals, and fellow teens to offer self-improvement tips, DBT education, and personal experiences. She Persisted is the reminder that someone else has been there too and your inspiration to live your life worth living.

a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

Sadie: Welcome back to another episode. Today I'm joined by my dad.

Sadie's Dad: Hello, Sadie.

Sadie: Hi. so can you introduce yourself a little bit just to give listeners a little bit of credibility that you are a parent, you've been through this and why they should listen to what you're saying.

Sadie's Dad: Sure. Well, I'm your father, and happily so. And in addition to being father of three other kids who are your siblings, and you're absolutely right, that I, along with your mom, have had the experience of going through a severe depression , in terms of, you know, the depression that you, had, ,earlier in your life. And so I have that experience , as a father to a teenage girl. That suffered from severe depression and anxiety. And so that's my background.

Sadie: Okay, so I was wondering if you could, similar to what we talked about in one of our first episodes, if you could give a little bit of a recap of emotionally what it was like to be a parent to a child who was struggling with depression and anxiety, like you mentioned.

Sadie's Dad: Well, I'd say that the brief recap is that, you know, as someone who didn't have any experience just prior to when you had, depression, I'd say the, the, the first feeling you feel emotionally is just confusion. And this feeling that you don't know what to do. And so, where it started was just sort of a, a feeling that, there was an obstinance or a refusal on your part to do certain things that a normal 14 year old girl would do in terms of getting out of bed and going to school or doing, you know, things that would be very normal, which is to sit at the dinner table with us or to, you know, speak, when we had guests over and things like that. So, so I'd say that the emotional journey for me as a, as a parent going through that was starting with confusion and frustration, to then a whole world of things once we actually understood what was going on.

Sadie: What do you mean when you say, a whole world of things?

Sadie's Dad: Well, I think that, what I mean is to first recognize. That this isn't anything that, you, wished upon yourself. This isn't anything that you were doing to, sort of, you know, you certainly didn't want this for yourself. And so I'd say that the, the big 'aha' moment for us was that once we realized how serious this was, and more importantly, how much you were suffering, that was the critical moment when we realized just how important it was for us to turn our world upside down to try and give you help and to give you support, as opposed to thinking that we could just fix it by saying some things or, taking, you know, actions just between your mom and myself.

Sadie: And when you say like, turn the whole world upside down, you mean like me moving across the country and at McLean and then being ta boarding school for a year is that what you're

Sadie's Dad: referring to?

Yeah, I mean, basically the, you know, as I would think anybody would in this situation, does. You start locally and you try and get help and support from local doctors and clinicians and subject matter experts. And in our situation, that wasn't an high enough, level of care for the situation. So, you know, that's absolutely what I mean when I talk about turning the world upside down, which is there's nothing that I think your mom and I wouldn't have done, to just try and get you the help and support that you needed, and you know, for your mom and myself to, to, you know, learn as much about this as, as possible and to be really good partners and parents to you through, through it all. Whether that's geography, whether that's time investment, you know, a whole host of things.

Sadie: Gotcha. So what preconceptions did you have about depression and anxiety, especially in adolescence, prior to me experiencing all that, and you and mom playing a big role in me getting treatment?

Sadie's Dad: I didn't have any experience in it before as it relates to teenage depression. So...

Sadie: Like what, like what preconceptions did you have? Were you like, "Oh, it doesn't happen to kids or it's not a thing that they would experience, or maybe like anxiety is only about like a presentation like". What did you think when relating to adolescence?

What did you believe about depression and anxiety?

Sadie's Dad: I think I'd have to say if I'm being just brutally honest with myself when I say this is that I, I guess based on my behavior, that I probably didn't think that it was possible for a young girl, to be so severely impacted by depression and anxiety.

In the manner that you were and I say this because obviously I quickly learned, you know, kind of once we figured out what was actually going on, I think I tried to do a 180 , to really, educate myself and to just learn as much as I could. But I'd have to say that before that moment , while I have, you know, kind of an experience , through my father, understanding what depression is like in adults. And when I was growing up, my mom always told me about the depression that my father had and that it started for him when he became an adult, when he went off to college. And so in my mind, I think it's fair to say that.

I just assumed that depression really can't show up until you become an adult. And clearly that is not the case. And so when you first presented symptoms of anxiety and depression, I think at first your mom, and I thought that, 'Oh, this is just sort of the challenging teenage years. And, and you know, just some obstinance and some nervousness that are just part of being a teenage teenager.' and that's where we started. And so I think it's fair to say that I didn't appreciate that it was even possible for a 14-year-old girl to be so profoundly depressed and anxiety ridden, , in the manner that you were.

And keep in mind, I don't think this showed up. 100% on day one. It felt like it was a gradual onset, and so in those early, you know, weeks and even a couple of months where it was more mild or, or modest, relatively speaking, I just, the last thing on my mind was that you could be severely or profoundly depressed or anxiety ridden. So, so that's, that's, you know, what I thought in that moment. Now that changed dramatically, obviously once we got medical help and, and went deeper and deeper into this, but, but that's, you know, probably where I was at the start.

Sadie: Yeah. And I think that's kind of crazy that you have being someone who's very highly educated mom came from like a medical background , you had like mental health complications like in your family, and you still weren't aware that that was something that adolescents could experience. And like as a society, we talk about that kind of thing so little. That parents have no idea that it's even possible that their kids can be really depressed, their kids can be experiencing very severe anxiety, and that could be what's happening.

So I think that's one of the reasons it's so important to decrease stigma and and just talk about mental health and how people are individually struggling more because it can lead to things like that where your own child was struggling there securely with depression and anxiety. And. Like as a parent, like you had the belief that it wasn't possible that like depression, anxiety were things that only came in adulthood.

So that's, I think that's absolutely insane that like as a society, we don't talk about that enough.

Sadie's Dad: I agree. I think it is, as you said, very appropriately. If myself, who grew up with a manic depressive father, didn't appreciate and understand.

Yeah. That a teenage girl...

Sadie: After like being in school for years, like you did the whole health classes, like and again, mom had a medical background and like, do you think that you two, two of the most capable people on this planet didn't even realize that could be a thing like that.

That speaks leaps and bounds to what the rest of the population must be experiencing when they see their, their child struggling.

Sadie's Dad: True and to give your mom credit, given her medical background, I think she was absolutely the leader in this, in that she was the first one to suggest that this was more serious than, than we realized, or I realized because it's obviously, you know, it was very tough for you to to, to verbalize it.

And so I really followed your mom's lead on this one. And you know, she was the one that, that really. You know, quickly moved to, you know, getting professional help and when that help was not sufficient enough, locally, she was the one that was absolutely, uh, understanding that we want to, if it's possible to overreact, which I don't think it is possible to.

Sadie: I mean, I, I think it is like if your kid is maybe like drank one time and you send them to rehab, I would say that's an over reaction. Like with these things that can, there can be an over reaction.

Sadie's Dad: Yeah. I guess I'm thinking about it in the context of your experience, kind of. Definitely.

Sadie: My experience being, I was like extremely unhappy.

I was depressed and I wasn't presenting with like super impulsive behaviors or dangerous patterns that was like impacting my like health in the long run, I would say.

Sadie's Dad: You're talking about immediately, like in the onset?

Sadie: Yeah, like I wasn't, I wasn't reaching out to drugs. I didn't have super dangerous friends. Like I wasn't like out, like selling myself as a prostitute.

Like these are things that I wasn't, I honestly isolated a lot. I was so sad. I didn't want to talk to anyone. I didn't feel like anyone understood. So I grew with that. There's no way to. You have to go above and beyond. It was the right move to do more than what's necessary to reach me. And like in these situations, if parents get to like nervous and freak out and they see one behavior and they're like, Oh, like maybe a kid stays home from school one day and they're like, I don't think they're sick.

They must be depressed. Let's send them to. Two year program, like maybe that is an overreaction.

Sadie's Dad: That's very fair in your situation. You're absolutely right that you didn't present with a whole host of behaviors that, you know, you mentioned. And so I, I agree with you that, you know, you weren't hanging out with the, you know, a tough crowd and, yeah.

And, but there were some things that absolutely suggested that, we had to get help and, you know, in the form of, you know, self harm and things like that, these are incredibly serious things and it's so easy to have, one, one, a step, a forever change, you know, lives your life and everyone around you.

So I think that for. For us. all credit goes to your mom that, you know, once things past a certain threshold in terms of seriousness, in terms of behavior, that's when I think it would be hard to say that there could be an overreaction once we got to that point.

Sadie: Just to illustrate, to have a little bit more context.

They're not were doctors saying once things pass a threshold like that meant that I had seen like multiple therapists and we had been trying to figure out like what was going on and changed family patterns for years. And I was having some pretty, concerning behaviors like self harm and I was struggling with like daily routine and basic behaviors that most teenagers are able to uphold.

So it definitely did get to a point where it was pretty serious. It was pretty severe. And. The who we leaned on around us, whether it was outpatient near us or counselors or therapists or school resources. It just wasn't changing anything. After months and months and months of attempts of going back and trying to change things as much as we could.

Sadie's Dad: True, true. And, and, you know, just to, you know, help others that might be in this situation. I think it's fair to say that in looking back on it, I think we did a pretty good job trying to exhaust the local resources as much as possible. And so, you know, we had a situation where. I think it was a, as you said, you know, uh, outside therapists, you know, weekly, you know, sessions, , hospitalizations. and I think sort of the phrase that you and I, and, and, and your mom used, was, you know, one step forward, two steps back and one step forward. And so we'd have a little bit of progress and then we'd have a hospitalization. And then a littlebit.

Like,

Sadie: I feel like all progress was, wants to afford two steps backwards, was like one step forward, 10 steps backwards.

Like this wasn't like any gradual kind of movement. Like this was like, Oh, maybe like we had one conversation that was good and then I was back in the hospital. So like the ratio of moments of success to those that just seemed like things were getting worse and worse was very skewed. , so I agree with like, we are.

So little things changing. Like when I would do outpatient DBT, we would sit in the sessions and mom and I would come to an agreement about like a phone plan and that would be something, but then the next week I'd be back in the hospital for self-harming. So it was like, it wasn't like typical progress that, I mean, especially like.

Uh, my time at boarding school and McLean, like there was a lot of times it felt like things were moving backwards or they weren't changing while I was barely making steps forward. And yet when I look back at that year and a half, like I grew so much, and when I look back at those that year and a half when I was at home, when I was getting outpatient treatment, like I can say that I was.

Overall digressing rather than steadily moving forward like I was once I was getting intensive treatment.

Sadie's Dad: Yeah. And as a parent, I think your natural instinct is, Oh, well, as long as we get some professional help, things will get better. And so it'd be very natural to think, Oh, well, this is a incredibly talented therapist and this outpatient DBT should be enough.

And they'll do the trick. And I think that is a reason why. In hindsight, you can say, or some people could say, wow, you know, you guys could have done, you know, kind of McLean or intensive therapy earlier. And I think the reason why we didn't is that you have this natural hope as a parent. That if we just keep at it locally, things will get better.

And there's a desire not to disrupt your school routine and not to disrupt your normal everyday habits with your friends and your teachers. And the family is

Sadie: significant for like the younger kids. Like I was gone for a year and a half. I wasn't living at home like. I think I understand that you and mom wanted to do as much as possible to avoid that because it was such a huge disruption.

Sadie's Dad: Yeah, it's hard. I mean, when you think you have siblings that are eight years old and 10 years old and 12 years old, those are really sensitive years. And so, you know, as a parent, you, you don't take. That kind of a disruption of you, moving across the country and going into a, you know, a hospital setting lightly, or an intensive therapy setting, uh, lightly.

So, so you're right, we, we tried to exhaust as much as we could here locally, but once it became clear. That the pattern just wasn't changing. That's when, and a lot of credit goes to your, your, your therapists at the local, local hospital, when they suggested, Hey, but, you know, it might be, you know, a time for you, kind of the next level.

Right?

Sadie: Yeah, I definitely agree. so now, two, three years later, actually last month was two years from when I went to McLean. How have your beliefs changed when you think about, adolescent depression and anxiety and mental health as a whole?

Sadie's Dad: I think having gone through it, and I say this, you know, also with the hope that other people don't have to go through this.

Sadie: I know that like as a family. Like we, we grew so much from it. Like we are as strong as we are now because we, like I went through all that pain and as a family we struggled so much to communicate and connect and yet how we're now I'd know like personally, I would never wish for another family to go through that because it was so painful and it was so difficult.

Even if it got us to the point that we are today.

Sadie's Dad: True.

Sadie: And I want other families to like be where we are today with their connection and our communication. And yet I would never want them to have to go through what we did to achieve that and to experience that. Again, that level of like familial harmony

Sadie's Dad: and you know, it's possible, Sadie, then you know, your podcast, is , one way that maybe it can help people to, to avoid that crucible because it's, it's a really difficult thing for anyone to go through.

So, but in terms of how my. You know, mindset has changed and perceptions have changed. I'd say that before all this, if I saw my daughter, um, or any, you know, 14-year-old girl, um, behaving and presenting in the way that you did. Um, my default would be, Oh, this is, you know, puberty. This is, you know, the tough years of, of, of growing up and all the anxiety that comes with those years.

And maybe there's a little bit of rebelliousness and desire for independence. You know, I would just typically say, Hey, that's just decisions that, that, that, that person is making right now at their moment in life, in life and understandable. Because, you know, we've all been 14-year-olds at some point, and so, but how I've changed is.

Instead, my default assumption or default sort of openness is that it could be that this person is just really, really struggling and to try and separate the behavior from what is going on beneath the surface. Because I think that's where it's very natural for anyone to respond to behavior as opposed to take a deep breath, sent them behavior aside.

However, disruptive/frustrating or whatever that may be. But just set that aside for a moment. Just consider the fact that it's very possible that this person is suffering so gravely, that, that that's really what's going on. And to dig deeper into that.

Sadie: Definitely, if that's what you would say to parents, and that's the advice you would give and it's like if their child was potentially struggling, what would you like say to a teenager or like a daughter? Like what? I know that you and mom went through like so much pain from how much I pushed you away and how much disruption I caused. What would you want someone struggling with? Just a teenager that's trying to navigate those really difficult years with their parents. Like what piece of advice, wisdom? Something that you could just get to them. Like maybe it's like just give your parents a break, or maybe it's like, just try and tell them what's going on. What would you want a teenager struggling, not struggling to hear and know from a parent's perspective?

Sadie's Dad: Just from a parent's perspective, I think. The thing I'd want them to know is that, you know, parents don't, don't have it all figured out. We just don't, we're not, you know, subject matter. At least most of us aren't subject matter experts in teenage depression and anxiety. And the reality is, is that despite our best intentions, we may in fact be saying the exact opposite of what is helpful in that moment. And I know this is, you know, tough to say or, or tough to hear in some cases, but to, to just sort of. You know, recognize that I'm a mother and a father or any family member is trying to figure this out and so this is why it's so important to get help because there are people that are so good at this and, and can be helpful.

And sometimes a mother and a father. Well, certainly be able to offer unending amounts of love, but it might take them awhile to understand and learn, not just what's going on, but also develop the skills that are necessary to help navigate this. Like I told you, Sadie, many times that for me, it took me, you know, hearing from you the, the quantitative based assessment that you gave yourself as to your level of, anxiety and, and desire to self harm.

That I then realized the amount you must be suffering because you would present, you know, very neutral. And we'd have conversations like a normal, you know, father daughter would. And then I would see these numbers that you kept in your diary as to each day, how you felt in terms of, you know, just a very analytical based, numbers, scoring system for anxiety, your diary card.

And it wasn't until I put two and two together and realize that. Oh my gosh, like to be suffering at that level of magnitude. I just didn't have any appreciation for what was going on inside of you. And so, so I'd say that, you know, talking to a teenager that might be struggling with this or know someone that's struggling with it, that from a parent's perspective to just recognize that probably most parents on the planet or ill-equipped to truly understand what's going on under the surface.

Which doesn't make those parents bad people, it just means that they need to learn about this. And that is, is all the more reason to get help. And so, I'd say that for you, and I think a big turning point was once I had that 'aha' moment of how much you must be suffering and then communicating to you, not in any way.

With an idea of how we can make it better, because there's nothing anyone else can do to say, Oh, I've got this. I can help you in this and the other instead. Sometimes what's really most valuable is just to let that person know, I can see that you're suffering, and while I, there's no way I can feel that same level of suffering.

I just want you to know that I see it in you and I'm here for you. And, and I think that. I think that is some comfort, some source of comfort there. There certainly was for you in that moment. And I thought that we really sort of, you know, we're, we're on our way after that moment, with a whole lot of hard work ahead.

Sadie: I agree. So now, like when. Like my siblings, like as they grow up in, as they get to like the age that I was. When that kind of thing started happening, how are you approaching, not to suggest that any of them are experiencing what I was at that point or that they might at some point. How are you just approaching parenting in that aspect differently now?

Sadie's Dad: Well, I think, as I said earlier, I think my, my default approach now is that when there is behavior that you know, presents itself to not. T T to not have an assumption that it is, you know, without some suffering underneath the surface and so I'd say that, I have a better ear as a parent. Now, I think your, your mom has a better ear as a parent as well.

And so the two of us in partnership. I, I think that we're, we're, we're far more focused on what might be under the surface driving the behavior as opposed to focusing on the behavior itself. And so I'd say that, you know, we, we have a new sensitivity and a new, a different type of hearing or, or, or power about observation.

And, you know, and I think that anytime you go through a crucible like we did, and you did, more importantly, I think you do, emerged stronger and in ways better prepared, , as a parent. And that includes for your, your three younger siblings. So, so I'd say that that's the, the, the, the main difference.

Sadie: This is like a more general question kind of, but looking back like 15-20 years ago, what did you think it would be like to parent a teenager.

Sadie's Dad: Oh, I had no idea. I had absolutely no idea. And it's probably better that I didn't have any idea because, , you know, you just, sometimes you're better off being naive and ignorant and make no mistake. Your mom and I absolutely were not even ignorant about what it was going to take to be a parent. And what are our approach to parenting would be, I think we only had a couple of key principles that we still hold near and dear, which is we wanted to make sure that each of our kids knew that they were loved unconditionally, no matter what decisions they made , no matter the situation that, that, that we just thought it was very important that each of our children know that they are loved unconditionally. And then the other thing that we try to and continue to try to do is to help our kids understand the importance of making time choices to other people, to themselves.

And, and, and to do that each and every day, and then finally to do the absolute best that you can with what's God's given you. And so those are the three principles that we had heading into this parenting adventure. But beyond that, we were absolutely naive and ignorant. And in some ways we still are.

Sadie: Gotcha. Well, thank you for coming on and answering my questions and hopefully giving like teenagers and parents, if they're listening a little bit more insight into how to navigate the craziness that is like being a teenager. so yeah, thank you for coming on. Thank you for talking about all that. I really appreciated it.

Sadie's Dad: No worries. Sadie. I'm super happy and I know I've told this to you personally, but I'm very proud of you for doing this podcast. I think you're, you have unique experiences that not many young young ladies have, and for you to decide to share those experiences and the wisdom that you gained through it, for others that might be in a similar situation in terms of suffering from.

Any level of depression and anxiety. I think it's a wonderful thing to give back to the world, so I'm very, very proud of you.

Sadie: Thank you. Well, see, I'll talk to you guys next week for our next step. So thank you for listening and be sure to come back next Friday. All right. Ready? PS: nevertheless,

Sadie's Dad: she persisted.