221. two psych majors tell ALL: GPAs, grad school, & so much more!

Sep 22

listen to this episode:

In this week’s episode, we are sharing part 2 of our tips for being a psychology major! I am once again joined by my friend (and fellow psych major at UPenn!) to discuss even more things you absolutely need to know about majoring in psychology in college.

We share more of our expert advice on topics including:

how important your grades really are
what extracurricular activities we’d recommend
greek life, making friends, & FOMO
getting funding & grants for psych research
writing your senior thesis
having your research published as an undergrad
working on posters & papers
why you should attend psych conferences
networking as a psych major
how to make your CV stand out
applying for graduate schools for psych
what we were glad we did as psych majors…
…& what we wish we did differently

Mentioned:

SHOP GUEST RECOMMENDATIONS: https://amzn.to/3A69GOC

About She Persisted

She Persisted is THE Gen Z mental health podcast. In each episode, Sadie brings you authentic, accessible, relatable conversations about every aspect of mental wellness. Expect evidence-based, Gen Z-approved resources, coping skills (lots of DBT), insights, and education in each piece of content you consume. She Persisted offers you a safe space to feel validated and understood in your struggle while encouraging you to take ownership of your journey and build your life worth living.

a note: this is an automated transcription so please ignore any accidental misspellings!

Sadie: [00:00:00] Welcome to She Persisted, the Gen Z Mental Health Podcast. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton. Let's get into it.

What do we wish we had known in freshman year?

Olivia: What am I supposed to be doing?

Sadie: What extracurriculars did you do in college

Olivia: am I like wasting my college years?

Sadie: What are you glad you did as a psychology major?

What do you wish you would've done differently?

Speaker: Hello, hello and welcome back to She Persisted. If you listen to part one, you know that Olivia and I are both psychology majors at the University of Pennsylvania graduating this week, and we sat down to give you guys all of our advice and insights on what it's like to be a psychology major, what we loved, what we didn't, what we wish we did differently, what we would absolutely do over again, and how you can set yourself up for success in this major in college.

If you wanna listen to part one, the link is in the show notes. This is part two of this conversation. and because it's a long one, we will just go ahead and dive right in.

Sadie: Grades. How important are grades? How much did you care about your GPA? We have different schools of thought here, [00:01:00] I feel like. Yeah. and it also really depends on the school, I think. Yes.

Olivia: And what you wanna do.

Sadie: Yeah. I would say you're in major GPA is more important than your non-major. Yeah. Like if you're getting bad grades in all your psych classes, it's hard to explain that like, you're interested in this thing and they should take you on as a grad student.

Yeah. If you don't do well in those classes, if you tank

Olivia: like your linear algebra class, I feel like that's an don't forgive you as important as you tanked abnormal psychology.

Sadie: Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah. I, I don't think a b is the end of the world. I've gotten quite a few b's in college. , Will you have to make up for that in other areas of your graduate school applications?

Yeah. You would need a really good GRE. You would need lots of research experience. I have the podcast, so it's a cost benefit analysis. , What are your thoughts? I

Olivia: am anal with my grades. This is why you know this. Yeah. You know this, I don't know where it came from. I've always been anal with my grades even in high school.

So I feel like I do think grades are really important to me. , It also made me feel a little bit better when I was applying to grad school because I felt like I had a little [00:02:00] bit of a cushion. Yeah. I did not take the GRE, because it was optional. Yeah. And I felt a little bit better about the decision because of my grades.

But I do think it depends if you are going to grad school, like get, they are going to look at your GPA if you're applying to jobs. I don't think it matters nearly as much. So I think really you're gonna like consult. Yeah. I think it really depends on what you wanna do. I think that's really important what you said, which is that it matters to you.

Sadie: Mm-hmm. I think not just doing research because you should mm-hmm. Not just taking calculus 'cause you Yeah. Should. Mm-hmm. I'm doing quotes, not just getting straight A's because you should.

Yeah. Does

it make sense and is it worth the investment? For your goals. Yeah. And I'm not saying fail all your classes don't do, but like, are you gonna be so stressed out and so burnt out?

Yeah. And have no work life balance. Yeah. In pursuit of an a in that Spanish class or like, whatever. It's, yeah.

Olivia: And I honestly like went into college thinking like, I'm gonna four Oh.

Mm-hmm.

obviously I did not go to college with that goal. I, I just, I think [00:03:00] I, I'm just very much like

high expectations Yeah.

For myself to a point where it's a deficit sometimes. Because when the first time I got like an A minus, I was distraught,

And I just, I catastrophize Yeah. So much. I convinced myself that if I don't have a 4.0, like my career's over

mm-hmm.

No one's gonna let me into grad school. No one's gonna hire me. , Which is completely untrue, obviously, because no one is grudging with a 4.0.

Sadie: Yeah.

Olivia: Maybe you are. Congratulations if you are,

Sadie: we're so

Olivia: proud of you and I don't know anyone who is.

Sadie: What extracurriculars did you do in college and how did you think about approaching those?

Olivia: I was very, I. Eager coming into college. Like I remember the club fair, like my freshman fall.

I was like, I don't think I even knew that was happening. I signed up for a lot more clubs than I actually ended up doing and having the time for. But it ended up like being, my main clubs were, I was an associate editor for the law journal, which has nothing to do with psych,

but clubs is where you, you know, explore those interests.

Yeah. And

this is another side note,

but I think it [00:04:00] looks good on your CV to say that like, I'm not just a psychology student. Totally. Like I'm a person, I have other interests. I don't need to do only psych things. I don't need to do only research. But anyways, yeah. So I did that. , I am president of the Penn Undergraduate Psychology Society, love pups Ms. Viol is here. She's of the department I, of the, of the, the PUPS team. , I, through the Student Harm Reduction Coalition, I've done like clinical volunteering at, , Penn Presbyterian Medical Center. What does that mean? So clinical volunteering? Yeah. Like what do you, for me, I, so individuals will come into the hospital for various reasons.

It doesn't have to be substance use related, but they all have a substance disorder in common.

Sadie: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: So we are just volunteers. We go in, we talk to them. We're just like an ear, honestly. 'cause you know, they have so many people coming in and checking on doctors and nurses, but those are busy people. They can't sit and listen to a patient's grievances as much as they probably would like to.

But that's all we do. We sit and we listen. Like, what are you not satisfied with, [00:05:00] with your care? Like, what have you felt like, have you been mistreated? Do you feel like you've been stereotyped? Because there is a lot of that obviously. Even in a place like Philadelphia at Penn, where substance use is very common in the city and you'd think that there's a little bit more

care amongst like healthcare workers and there isn't always that.

So we're just, you know, we bring them snacks, we bring them coffee, we bring them. Clothes or like shoes if they're going to rehab after they get, discharged from the hospital. , But yeah. I love it.

Sadie: That's a really good example of a way that you could get clinical experience Yeah. To understand if that's what you wanna do mm-hmm.

As an undergrad. Yeah. , Do you do anything else? Like random activities, how you spend your free time? Think she like jelly cat collector? I'm not really, no. I feel like you have a lot of jelly cats. I have like two. Okay.

Olivia: As a

Sadie: collector.

Olivia: Yeah, I think so. There's two. Okay. I, enthusiast, I do, I am definitely a maximalist that's for sure.

Sadie: Like just in

Olivia: life. just like in

my spaces.

Oh, okay. Like

I love, you know, like you see my room, like I love stuff.

Mm-hmm.

, Got that from my [00:06:00] mom. So,

Something really funny is I applied to write for the daily Pennsylvania every single semester that I, which is our street newspaper.

Yes. And I was denied multiple occasions. Yeah. And then a message came in my group meet one day and it was like taking summer, like opinion columnist, no one will be cut. And I was like, it's my time to shine this is it, did you get it for me? Yeah. 'cause they literally, they were not cutting anyone. So I wrote like a couple pieces for like the newspaper, , which again, like, not psychology related, but yeah.

Like I knew that I wanted to do it and

Sadie: yeah. Yeah. I will say, I describe my college as like choose your own adventure experience. Yeah. And the implications of that is that I have no chords for graduation. That's fair. So like you, again, this is a cost benefit analysis. Yeah. I do not look back in my college experience being like, I should have gotten been that club.

Yeah. Like I'm really happy with what I've done in college and. Your path might not look like someone else's. Yeah. So you have to remind yourself and ask yourself when you choose to do these things.

Olivia: Yeah. So

Sadie: when you guys see my grad [00:07:00] photos, it's a little barren happening. Yeah. There's no quartz.

Olivia: Yeah. I feel like I like threw myself into school and just Yeah.

But

I've always been like that where I've school has been like the center of my universe. I don't really do anything outside of school, honestly. Like I, that sounds sad, but like, it's okay if it's not school, you know, it's a club or if it's doing research. So I feel like, I don't know.

Sadie: Yeah.

Olivia: I

Sadie: did hear that I could get a cord from Guttman for a living in this. Oh, I, yeah, I got that one. So I think I'm gonna, that's another thing

Olivia: I will like, take every court opportunity, like, like I got

like a QuestBridge chord, even though like I was a finalist, but I did not match to Penn that count.

And so I was like, I was in QuestBridge, so I'm getting the chord

Sadie: a hundred percent. Yeah. , I tried to rush a pre-health Greek life frat. Didn't get it. I think I didn't even make it past the first thing. They did not want me. ,

Olivia: I had

come independent not knowing if I wanted to rush. And then I found out how much it costs to be in a sorority. Yeah. And it immediately was cut because it's like thousands of dollars a semester and it's just not feasible for,

Sadie: [00:08:00] I feel like I struggled to like really find my group of people.

Yes. Yes. Because I wasn't doing a lot of structured things. Mm-hmm. Which I was fine with. Again, I don't look back, but it was something I had to be more intentional about. So I really wanted to rush. I really wanted to be in a sorority. I tried to rush twice. Didn't make it both times. I still into an episode about that.

It's, it was, yeah. It was humbling. Yeah. I cried a lot. ,

Olivia: I like, didn't rush, but I was cut from my high school volleyball team, so I feel like, I mean,

yeah. Yeah. ,

Sadie: So I tried to rush Greek life. That didn't work out. I tried to rush the pre-health frat that didn't work out. , I was an active mind for a bit.

Okay. And I was technically a board member with like marketing and communications. Okay. I, for one semester wrote some things for her campus. Mm-hmm. , Their like blog. I was in service dog club. That is the best club that I've done at Penn. They had this golden retriever named Fred, who's someone on campus was raising.

And I got to walk him. twice a week I would go and walk the golden retriever [00:09:00] and I would get my dog fixed. Mm-hmm. And had like. Consistent access to a dog. Mm-hmm. Who was and helped trained consistent access to a dog. Yeah. Specifically a golden retriever. Mm-hmm. I loved that. That was like one of my favorite things.

Yeah. Here's what I found for her campus. Like I was like, okay, I'm interested in like the media dissemination communications piece of things. I was writing, like stalking stuff or gift guides, and it felt like work I was doing that wasn't benefiting where I wanted to go. I found that the podcast was a much more effective way for me to have that IP and further that interest.

Mm-hmm. And feel like it was reaching me toward my career goal of being a psychologist. Mm-hmm.

Same

thing with Active Minds. I was helping them with their social media, these weekly meetings. Mm-hmm. While it was like you got to meet people, it was additional work that again, I didn't feel was helping me get towards my goal.

Mm-hmm. And spending that time instead on the podcast or research mm-hmm. Was more effective. Yeah. So now I'm really. Careful on like the things that I'm saying yes to. Yes. Is this [00:10:00] directly helping me with my next goal? Yeah. Or is it for fun?

Olivia: Yeah.

Sadie: Because I do lots of things for fun. Mm-hmm. I've been needle pointing recently.

Mm-hmm. I do diamond painting, I read a lot, I watch a lot of tv. I'm very tapped in online. So it's like, is it for fun? Yeah. But if it's a work commitment that's gonna take energy from me Yeah. How is that helping me move things forward?

Mm-hmm.

And I wouldn't say this approach is for everyone because you kind of have to have something to show for it if you're not doing clubs.

Olivia: Yes. And, and so I agree. And because you have the podcast, like I feel like it's not Yeah. Like you just decide not to do clubs and not to do anything and you're like.

Sadie: Yeah, you have to be like, here, I've, I instead use this time for this thing and here's what has come of that investment of time. I also have a social media marketing agency called Waveform Social, which I've used to subsidize the podcast and research and like as a side hospital to have some income because I taught myself how to edit and market and do video and social media for the podcast.

And so now I do that for other people. Mm-hmm. As a way to like make a little bit of money. And [00:11:00] also it's been a great experience as far as like I've managed people and I know how to do cold emails and networking and all the business type of stuff. So that's kind of what I did in college. Again, it's a cost benefit analysis.

I see all these people taking their grad photos with like all of these chords and they know all these people. Mm-hmm. And they're in all these societies and I'm like, mm-hmm. I didn't do that. But also you have to ask yourself like, would I have wanted to do that?

Olivia: College is so much fomo.

Yeah. It

is so much

fomo.

For me especially, it was like social fomo more than like academic fomo. I feel like I threw myself into academics so hard that way. Oh, I feel this story

Sadie: before my grandmother heard it on the podcast, she sent me a birthday cake my freshman year and I didn't have anyone to share it with.

That's actually, I'm gonna cried. I know it. It's hard. I, I feel like you see these people going on these extravagant spring break trips with their 20 girlfriends and it's like number one, I can't afford to go on a spring break trip. Yeah, no. Number two, I went home every year for spring break. Me too.

Olivia: I don't have 20 sorority girls.

Sadie: No. Behind me. I don't know if I [00:12:00] know 20 girls at No, just kidding. Can't do. I'm like not that. Well, not to go on

Olivia: a trip. Yeah. And it's like,

I felt so like, oh my gosh, am I like wasting my college years? this is the time you're supposed to be having so much fun. And I also don't drink.

Yeah.

Which is a huge, I mean, you know like college is a also huge,

Sadie: oh, also I drink like one time a semester. Yeah. It's very

Olivia: drinking heavy. Especially Penn, the Party Ivy, I feel like. Drinking is a huge part of the culture. And so I

felt like out of place. I was like, I didn't wanna be going to frats. I don't wanna be getting drunk.

What am I supposed to be doing? How am I supposed to make friends? Yeah. And honestly, like I made my closest friends through classes.

Mm-hmm.

Which is like

crazy, especially my Italian class, like that's where I met most of my friends. So I didn't take Italian. So does that mean about friends?

, So my friend group I would say is like from Italian, but I also have a lot of individual Yeah. And I feel like I always wanted like a core group. Mm-hmm. Where all my friends are just in one group and it's just not peaceful.

Sadie: Yeah.

Olivia: Like, it's just not, and honestly

Sadie: I feel like that's one thing that people get FOMO with is they don't have that friend group for like a [00:13:00] group Halloween costume.

That's stressful. Yeah. That's bobo. Or like

Olivia: rad picks because it's like, let's say you're like annoyed with friend group, you don't want the drama, you don't want to have no one else you can turn to. It's like Totally. You want friend options.

Sadie: Yeah. So like truly sit with what would it be like if I only had one friend group?

Yeah. And. Do you want that? Yeah.

Olivia: I have one more thing to say. Extracurricular activities, volunteering. Yes. Get into your community. Break out of like, I didn't that it, the Penn bubble.

Where it's like Penn students get this in their mind that like they're in Philadelphia, they need to stay on campus, they can't leave the campus, or they

Sadie: think the Penn campus is Philadelphia and that's not the case. Yes.

Olivia: And like some of my favorite experiences was I was volunteering with the Everywhere project, which is like a nonprofit, , harm reduction organization.

And it was so invaluable to like actually go into Center City every week and like hand out like clean syringes, clean needles, things that Like for drugs? Yeah, for drugs for, yeah. I'm like really interested harm reduction now because of that and [00:14:00] how You know, were, I don't know if they were also needle pointers, so

Sadie: I had to clarify needle pointers.

I'm kidding.

Olivia: Wait, I don't even know what that means. Like,

Sadie: you know, my sewing project doing, wait. Yeah. I'm

Olivia: actually handing out like sewing needles and yarn. Sorry for the knitters. I'm not muting. Like, not fun. No, it was funny. It was funny. , But like, that's where I got my like, main interest of like doing harm reduction.

Yeah. Was because obviously I'm interested in doing like addiction research and part of that comes with treatment. Yeah. And as like a field we're moving away from abstinence is key. How do we make it so individuals that want to use drugs can use them safely? Mm-hmm. And that's something I'm really interested in.

And I got interested in that because of my volunteering and it's just been so nice to like, break out of the Penn campus sometimes. Yeah. And interact with people that are not at Penn.

Sadie: okay. Quickly going through some like research related things that are very confusing. Funding and grants. Yeah. A really quick overview here is that there will be options for you to get funding or get a grant. It's small, it's tiny. Like it's probably like $500.

[00:15:00] Mm-hmm. A thousand dollars to go to a conference or work on a research project over the summer. A lot of the times it's related to lab work you're already doing. You don't need funding and grants, but if you're already doing research, apply to those. Mm-hmm. Because it's great for your CV to be able to say, I got funding.

Yeah. I was able to do the application to request funding. , So being aware that that's an option and something that you're qualified for Yeah. Is something I wasn't aware of until this year and I wish I did more.

Olivia: Yeah. Especially if you are volunteering, like you said for a research lab. look to see if your university provides, like especially over the summer if you have to like stay in your college town and you're not getting student housing.

Yeah.

Like check to see if there's a way that you can get funding from your school for the like. Free work. You're doing out that, that's what Ivy

Sadie: said. Yeah. My sister at Duke, there were options to get funding for her to work. Not at Duke. Mm-hmm. And do research, but not, she didn't do it early enough.

Mm-hmm. But like, so those options do exist and be aware of them. , The funding might also not go to you, it might go to your lab, but it's a great thing to be able to put on your, your [00:16:00] cv. Yeah. So definitely keep an awareness of that.

Mm-hmm. Writing

a thesis. Mm-hmm. I would say most schools have some kind of a thesis.

Yeah. Or a longer term project. A lot of them, it's probably like related to an honors program. At least it is at Penn. Definitely do a thesis if you can. It's a great experience. It helps you understand what your research interests are. Doing the statistics independently is really, really valuable.

Yes. I would say ideally by the time you're in your junior year, you've identified what lab and mentor you'd wanna do a thesis with.

Yeah. So you're able to like be in that lab, they know you, you have a little bit more of a say about what your thesis is gonna be on, and then you're writing your thesis. I would say try and find a thesis mentor that makes line item edits and gives you a lot of feedback. Yeah. That's one thing that Angela Duckworth said like last week or the week before, and I was like, that is so true.

Which is that at our age in academia mm-hmm. As baby undergrads. Yeah. What we need is feedback, feedback, feedback. Mm-hmm. And lots of revisions. Mm-hmm. [00:17:00] And trying to find that in a mentor at this stage is, yeah.

Very important.

if you can ask a professor or your mentor, is there an option that this could be adjusted and edited and we could potentially submit this for publication somewhere?

Yeah. They might not suggest that, but especially if your findings are significant. Mm-hmm. Ask. Yeah. The worst thing they can say is no. Yeah. Posters, papers, and getting published. You hear you have to get published. Yeah. You should be working on papers. Mm-hmm. What is a poster? I didn't even know.

Olivia: Gosh. So we had to do posters for our research symposium within the department., Mm-hmm. I think of it as just like a very brief version of your paper. Yeah. Like you split it the same way you would split a paper with like a visual introduction, the methods results.

But it's different in that it's less word heavy and a lot more like figure heavy. Like you want someone to look at your poster and see right away, like what this is. Yeah. Like you don't want them to have to read like. 3000 lines of text to figure out what you're doing.

Sadie: And you also probably will only present like one aspect of [00:18:00] it, or the significant findings, the paper you report.

Everything. Everything, yeah. Poster is like, can get everything from

Olivia: your paper into your poster. Yeah. And that's okay.

Sadie: So a poster is like a visual representation of a research finding a paper is like a long-term version of that. Yeah. You wanna get posters in undergrad. Mm-hmm. Finding a lab where the undergrads are working on posters.

, Also your first poster review have the option to work with like a postback. Mm-hmm. And they can also help scaffold that process if you can get published as an undergrad or work in a lab where your contributions are significant, that you get authorship for what you're doing.

That's really helpful. , But these are the ways that people can quantify and measure your experience. Mm-hmm. I guess I would say. Yeah. But you probably won't be a first author publication Yeah. Paper on an undergrad if you are. I'm so impressed. That's like crazy amazing. Mm-hmm. Wait, you're doing that though for your thesis, right?

Olivia: For my thesis right now. Yeah.

Sadie: Olivia's,

Olivia: but it's probably not gonna be published until I'm graduated,

Sadie: but still. Very [00:19:00] cool. , But yeah, just like asking like, are these things that mm-hmm. Happen in the lab and like is there structure and support for those? Mm-hmm. Is super helpful.

Yeah.

Conferences, we talked about this briefly.

I love conferences. I remember getting to a DAA or the Anxiety and Depression Association of America conference and just like, goosebumps, like I found my people. Yeah. Like, this is what I'm gonna be in my career. Mm-hmm. This is it. Mm-hmm. And it's basically like three days of talks about research and concepts in psychology.

And it's also where research is presented. So like if you work on a poster, sometimes you'll present it in an undergrad context or like something for school. But it's really right to present a poster at a national conference because you have to apply and get it accepted. And it's just such a fun experience.

Mm-hmm. If you can go to a conference especially and get funding for that conference, like bucket list

Olivia: item as

Sadie: an undergrad.

Olivia: Yes. Yes, definitely. And when you go like be prepared, know who's gonna be there, know who you wanna talk to, like when we [00:20:00] went to the association for, we need to do an

Sadie: episode about just conferences.

Olivia: I know like when we went to the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies, like I, you had a lot more people there than me, but like we

Sadie: tried to find our grad PIs. Yeah. Like

Olivia: we knew who we were gonna be applying to for grad school and so we just like tried to find them just to introduce yourself.

I like went up to someone in the lobby and was like.

Hi.

Like, you don't

know me. I know you, you will see my name soon in application. Yes. , So yeah, and just getting to know also like if you see someone is in their lab, maybe it's one of their students, talk to them too. Go up to them. Yeah. A hundred

Sadie: percent follow up on Instagram.

Mm-hmm. Be like, what did you like, what did you not like? Mm-hmm. And they're so nice. networking. Yes. I would say the most successful networking relationships I've had the ground rule is that like you have to provide value to them. Yes. And then they will help you out.

Yeah. It's like I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Mm-hmm. And so maybe that's volunteering in their lab.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Sadie: Maybe it is working through work study or helping them with data collection. [00:21:00] I have been able to get mentors that were tougher to crack and not at Penn or. Not do, I don't work in their labs through the podcast and providing value with like, I can help you edit videos.

Mm-hmm. Or social media, or you can come on the podcast. , So just being aware of like what value first, what value are you providing to them? Mm-hmm. And then what do I hope to get out of this? How can they support me?

Mm-hmm.

I would also say as far as networking, a lot of the times this is with the context of like mm-hmm.

A long-term mentorship relationship. You want a letter of recommendation for a future job. Yes. You can. Or a program you're applying to. You should be keeping a running list of all the responsibilities and waves that you've helped that person. Yes. And positive feedback you've gotten. Yes.

Olivia: Because a lot of the time, which I was shocked, yes.

You will write your own letter recommendation even though you check the thing on the website

Sadie: being like, I've never seen this before. Yes. But, but it's industry standard to write your own and then they edit it.

Olivia: Yes. so you need to know what you did. Yeah. Because [00:22:00] you are literally the one who's writing it.

Sadie: And so that means what programs you were doing. Mm-hmm. How much data you were cleaning, how many hours you did, how many participants were in the study, like would say like other networking, introduce yourself to anyone. Mm-hmm. Ask lots of questions, I would say in person.

Mm-hmm. Like above all else is the mentorship or networking relationships that have actually come to fruition.

Yeah.

, And really being like, how can I provide value? Because even though academia is not like a famous person, like these people are spread thin. They have a lot of inbound requests coming.

Yeah. And. It will get

Olivia: lost. Yeah. And don't bombard them with a book that you have written on an email. introduce yourself one sentence as, or what you're interested in, what you're like hoping to get.

Mm-hmm. Like, do you want like a volunteer position or whatever, and just like, maybe attach your CB probably if you have one. But like, do not write like, I loved your paper on this, this, this, this is why like, they don't care. They don't want it, they don't wanna hear it like they have. Thousands of emails coming in.

Make it short and sweet. , And I would also say, [00:23:00] yeah, if

Sadie: it's a cool email, you can really quickly tell the mentors you'd wanna work with because they reply shockingly fast. Yes. They'll be like, oh, so sorry you don't have an option, but nice to meet you. Yes. And you're like, oh my God, that person's like so highly published and cool.

Like, what? Yes. Yes. , So that's also a good telltale sign. I'll post on Instagram or TikTok a sample cold pitch email that people could do. That's good. Some quick questions. What do we wish we had known in freshman year?

Psychology is synonymous with research. Mm-hmm. Even if you eventually wanna do clinical Yeah. You can avoid it and understanding how the research process works and at what stage you're in, in that process. And then how to get involved. I think a cv, I didn't know what a CV was.

Mm-hmm. I didn't know I needed one. Mm-hmm. Even if you have nothing on your cv, I want you to start your CV today and put the high school you went to. Yeah. List the relevant classes you're taking. Who are your references, even if you don't format it? Just like, I just have a running list

Olivia: in my phone split by year of like, this is every class I took freshman year, every club I was in.

Everything I [00:24:00] do. Yeah. Because you will, even if you end up

Sadie: editing it. Yeah, but just you think you won't, but

Olivia: you'll sit down to write your cv. You're senior year and you're gonna be like, what is I doing? You gonna be trying. It took me

Sadie: hours to go back through and be like, oh, I gave that one random talk at that one random high school on Zoom.

Yeah. What was the name? What was the date? What was the high school? Yeah. Literally anything you do as far as write it down, like if you get money, if you do an interview for something, you make the data, if you give it down, if you have a skill that you learn, if you take a licensing thing, like city licensing, write it out for a lab.

If you work on an IRB study, if you're added to the I Rrb write, write it down, write everything down, every single coding language you like. Mm-hmm. Write it down. It'll make your

Olivia: life so much easier, ridiculously easy,

Sadie: and. All these things. another Angela Duckworth learning should be done with an example.

You should never try to DIY something from scratch. So you should be asking Google and chat GPT. Give me an example of the undergraduate psychology cv. Gimme an example. Like your university, because [00:25:00]

Olivia: I, yeah, not exactly based mine off the pen one, but like that's where I got, 'cause I mean, when I started writing CV I was like, you see these things on, wait, we

Sadie: didn't even say what a CV was.

Curriculum vitae. I didn't even know how that was. How you say it. Like, I'm probably saying it's like a really, really long resume that's only used in academia. And this is the Bible. Like you are your cv. Yes.

Olivia: Like professors will have like 90 page CCPs.

Sadie: Yeah.

Olivia: Yours is not gonna be

Sadie: like that. It's a, it's quantifying your experiences.

Yeah. And when you apply for jobs mm-hmm. When you work in labs, when you maybe even like our thesis, we might have submitted a cv. Yeah. This is what they're looking at. Yeah. And so that's why it's important to update it and edit it. And I was like holding my sister's hand through this CV process. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because I have been telling her like, as soon as possible get involved in research. Mm-hmm. She's doing it the summer as a freshman, which like ahead of the, her, her profile proud. Like really? I get credit for that. 'cause she wouldn't even known if I had told her But yeah, it's not a resume. You're gonna wanna see examples. Mm-hmm. It's a really strange format. And you're gonna [00:26:00] wanna have like professors and PhD students look at it and give you feedback. Yes. And ignore

Olivia: the like, graphic design people that say it should be flashy. No, it should be like, I see so many of that where it's like, you know it, they're tired of reading the same black and white cv.

No, they're not. This is not a resume. No, they're not. It should look like everyone else's. It literally should be experience. No color, no graphics, no crazy fonts. Like be a PA style. Yes. Make it professional looking. Yeah.

Sadie: Yeah.

Olivia: With graduate school applications, I feel like when I first started thinking of applying, there was a lot of pushback with everyone in my life.

Yeah. And like professors, it's not common that you apply. We both applied our senior year

mm-hmm.

Which most people don't do. They take a couple years to work and then they apply.

Sadie: Yeah.

Olivia: And so I. Received a lot of, you know, I don't think you should do this. I had a lot of doubts about it, but I firmly believe if you think you have a chance, you should do it.

Sadie: Yeah.

Olivia: Because [00:27:00] like literally why not? Like, yes, it is time. Yes it is money, but you're increasing your chances if you apply twice then if you apply once. I also think

Sadie: applying to grad school gave me the structure and scaffolding to successfully get a post-back job. Yes. Because I already had my CV done. I had my cv.

Yeah. I understood what labs I wanted to work at. Mm-hmm. Understood what research you wanted to do, what? What research experiences I needed, where the gaps were. Mm-hmm. I practiced practice interviews. Yeah. I knew how to present myself. Like I give credit to getting a post back for the fact that I did all that work through grad school and I have no regrets for that reason.

Yeah. Yeah. Except for that it costs a lot of money.

Olivia: Yes. And unfortunately, I, if I had, you know, perfect hindsight, 2020, if I knew the situation of funding. Maybe I would not have applied, but you just never know. Well, no, you never know. Yeah. And so unfortunately that did affect a lot of things this year, but I just recommend that like if you think you have a [00:28:00] chance, like go for it.

Sadie: Yeah. And no one knows your application like you do. Yeah. And especially these mentors Yeah. And PIs who are working with like 50 people in your Yeah. Don't know. Yeah. Be honest with yourself.

Olivia: Yeah. Like I was being told, you know, like, not that I don't have a chance, but like pretty much that. And then, you know, we both got interviews and then would have gotten offers if the funding was not the situation.

No, I was just waitlisted she would've gone. , So I like would have gotten in, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I would've gotten in this semester if the funding was not, did get

Sadie: pulled. Yeah. Was

not

Olivia: pulled. So it's like I would've been successful this year. Yeah. And I, if I had listened to everyone who I talked to, I wouldn't have applied.

Yeah. So I feel like just listen to yourself like no one knows you, like, you know, you. If you think you have a chance, like take that chance. Do it.

Sadie: Okay. What are you glad you did as a psychology major?

Like what would you do again?

Everything

okay. There's, okay. That was really specific I [00:29:00] would say getting involved with research. Mm-hmm. Working in multiple labs so I could diversify my experiences, building relationship with my mentor. Mm-hmm. Starting my network as an undergrad. Yeah.

Your network is everything, especially for grad school because they're getting hundreds of applicants. Mm-hmm. And if they recognize your name or your mentor mm-hmm. You have a better chance that they'll read your application.

Olivia: Yeah. Like I even had a professor who I had like emailed before I applied, just introducing myself, and then when I did apply, he emailed me back.

He was like, I was looking for your name in the applications because I remember you emailed me. like definitely I recommend doing that, like emailing because they, they

Sadie: will remember totally. , And it also like from the other side of the table, like it shows initiative, it shows demonstrated curiosity.

it's not about the fact that you emailed that might not go anywhere. It's the fact that you like Yeah. It's the skills that it shows. Yeah. That you are willing to advocate for yourself and introduce yourself. Yes. And network and you know what your goals are and what you want Advocating for yourself is huge in college.

[00:30:00] Yes. , What do you wish you would've done differently? I wish I would've started research earlier. I don't think I started it too late. Mm-hmm. But I think I just didn't understand how important it was, and I really enjoy working in labs. Mm-hmm. So I wish I would've done that earlier. And then the other thing is I think rather than focusing on like what more experiences do I need?

How can my current experiences, how can I get the most out of them? Mm-hmm. So like, if you're already doing research, is there a grant that you can get for the research you're already doing? If you're already working on a thesis, can you submit it for publication? You are already working on a thesis. Can that also be a poster for a conference?

, So I wish I would've known you can apply for grants and awards and of like, a lot of the times it doesn't pan out. Mm-hmm. But if you've already done the work, why not? Like see if you can get the most bang for your buck in these other areas.

Olivia: I would say, yeah. I just like look at the resources that your university offers, whether it's like psychology related or not.

I mean, like, I. I got like a free laptop from Penn. Really? Like, for being a first generation low income student. Like they literally gave me a laptop. , Do you get to keep it? Yeah.

Sadie: My God, that's so [00:31:00] great. I know.

Olivia: And just like looking at the resources that you are being offered to you. really like take advantage of that.

Yeah. Because you're not gonna get these same resources when you graduate. The second you're out of here, they're not gonna give you anything.

Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. Any last parting advice to the baby psych majors? God, it's the best. I love being a psych major. Yeah. Especially when I talk to other majors, I'm like, we have it good.

It's not stressful or like Yeah. At least at this stage, so incredibly mm-hmm. Competitive. Mm-hmm. It's so interesting. Mm-hmm. Generally the mentors are great. Mm-hmm. ,

Olivia: Yeah. I think the classes are very digestible, very like able to be handled. I think the brunt of like psychology is what you're doing outside of your classes.

Like Yes. Doing your research, being involved in. Clinical volunteering. I agree. , So yeah, you will be busy, but it's not gonna be necessarily from your classes.

Sadie: Yeah. I think, I think that was what I didn't understand going in. Yeah. And I hope that's the one thing people take away. Mm-hmm. Is that like, if you want a career in psychology, [00:32:00] undergrad is gonna be not about the classes you took, it's gonna be about what, like you said, what what you did outside of the classroom.

Well Olivia, thank you for coming on. She resisted. Will this go on your cv? I'm so honored. Of course it's going on my c I'm posting on all my socials. Yes. It's going to be my personality for a while. I love it. I'm so excited. We got to Twin Alice if you're listening and watching. 'cause she said she was going to, she got her shout out.

We love you. , If you guys have more psychology questions, Yeah. if you want an episode on like conferences or any of these other areas, because we did talk a lot, but there was also like. So much to say and there's not a roadmap and the roadmaps that there are, like we have an example of a grad school guidebook.

Olivia: Yes. It's

Sadie: dense. So hopefully this useful. Take a of those too. Yeah. Alright, well thank you for being here. Of course, if you liked the episode, share, leave a review post on social media, send to a friend or family member. Thanks for listening. You

can drop

my email, I'll answer questions. Yeah, we'll put, yeah, we'll put it in the Yeah.

Or [00:33:00]

Olivia: Instagram handle, whatever you usually do.

Sadie: I'll give Inform I, I'll find my dms. Okay. I'm gonna put everything there. If you guys have a questions for Olivia, like Yeah. If you want to get involved in addiction research Yeah. Or love addiction research. She is your girl. If you wanna get involved in like psychology on campus clubs also defer to Olivia. Okay. Bye bye.

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